Purchasing a business.

[Stacy1203]

Something doesn't seem kosher here. If examining the financials leaves y'all confused on where money is going, then that business isn't being open (especially if they are trying to sell). That alone would steer me away from the business (and my business is very focused in the same thing that this business for sale is/was. While I'm only at 24 yrs in this trade and they are at 30, but I digress), because if they aren't being open here, where else are they not being open about?

I do like to mitigate my risks, I may take risks, but I like to do educated risk management.

I've got to ask what has been done as far as a C/B outlook on this purchase, how long would it would be for ROI.

I've got to tell you, customers may not go with the new purchaser. While you may like those connections that the business has, it may not translate to those being your connections now. If your lucky, you may get one order out of them and hopefully they won't notice any changes with the product output that they will stick with you, but there is still no promises on that unless they are contractually obligated in some manner. Sometimes, at least at one time, what keeps people doing business with a business is the person that they were dealing with. Take them out of the equation, that hold isn't there anymore (granted that type of loyalty hasn't been in force for quite a while).

I'm getting this "fly from the seat of my pants" vibe here. I can't put my finger on it, but that's the vibe that I'm getting. Not trying to be rude, just being honest.

Hola! The only thing we’ve looked at is the cash flow statement and this year return. Their accountant is gathering all the other documents so nothing concrete just yet. My decision won’t be based on anything negative said here, it was my mistake for thinking this is a fun forum to have conversations. I didn’t expect everyone to be so uptight. I’m not too concerned about maintaining the customer base I honestly don’t believe it will be a challenge but we can agree to disagree. I’m not sure what fly from the seat of my pants means but no offense taken.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Their accountant is gathering all the other documents so nothing concrete just yet. My decision won’t be based on anything negative said here, it was my mistake for thinking this is a fun forum to have conversations.

Don't outright dismiss things just because one believes that they are negative. Take it, evaluate it, since if there is something to be gleaned from and then make your decision.

There are people with alot of experience if various aspects of this business (signage specifically, I'm the odd duck here, I'm exclusively embroidery, which puts me more along the lines of the people that you are considering buying their business).

We learn more from our mistakes then we do from our successes.

Although, I'm surprised about you saying this considering you also said this:

I’m interested in hearing other opinions from risk takers gives me an angle of different perspectives.

You want to hear other opinions with different perspectives? Don't you think cautionary negative perspectives might be forthcoming? Are did you want only different positive perspectives?

Fortunately for us technology makes it mentally challenging but physically more feasible to attain our goals... it’s the way of the world, the trend of evolution.

I love using tech, tech has been apart of my life since I was a little kid (I'm 39 now, this month actually, been doing this since I was 14 working for my mom, this June would make 25 yrs I've been doing this). Unfortunately, without knowing the more traditional basics, it's really hard to yoke tech to it's fullest. Even using digital means, there are times we I still have to plot each individual stitch for the most advanced patterns (which you will have to do if you want to be making the money that you want to be making).

It's best to know both in order to realize full potential.

I’m not too concerned about maintaining the customer base I honestly don’t believe it will be a challenge but we can agree to disagree.

Hard to know without knowing the incoming knowledge base versus the old.

For instance, do you know when to use certain techniques at a certain size to achieve a certain effect when they are wanting something really small (and/or when to switch speed, needle size, thread weight etc)? If you don't and the people that you bought from did and it was a part of the product that this customer got, that will be noticed.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from branching out (without knowing all the particulars it's hard to say one way or the other), but getting more info before judgement is what I'm advocating. Making sure that everything is going to be seamless during the transition (are you going to get training from the previous owner?)?

Now I'm getting more detailed then most on buying a business like this as that's what I've been doing the majority of my life specifically. Pretty much like what the people that you are thinking about buying from did.

I’m not sure what fly from the seat of my pants means but no offense taken.

More along the lines of this:

but it’s something about this that speaks to my soul.

If this is your biggest reason for doing something, without totally understanding the financials of the business your buying. I'm not too sure about your experience level, but if it's not to the same as the people that you are buying from, then keeping the same quality.

I understand the allure of it all, but without knowing more and without knowing how much it's going to take to make it even worth the investment before you start seeing a return, that's "flying by the seat of your pants".

 

[TimToad]

Johnny! You’re a breath a fresh air! : ) my gut hasn’t steered me wrong yet! Thanks Pal! all the blessings and success to you my friend!

So as long as one of us tells you want to hear, they are a genius. Others equally as wise as your cheerleader are warning you about potential problems, pitfalls and oversights, but you just plow ahead.

FWIW, out of 50 B&B's in our market area, after one year we were ranked in the top 5 on TripAdvisor and remained there for the entire 8 years we were in business without even asking for reviews while others were sending guests home with scripted reviews and constant reminders about posting a review once the guest got home. Which is now standard practice.

We didn't get out of the business due to failing, we got out due to being disgusted with the business practices you must adopt or suffer the fallout from.

We didn't bet wrong, disruptors looking for a quick buck came in and infected an industry that has been around for centuries.

 

[Stacy1203]

Don't outright dismiss things just because one believes that they are negative. Take it, evaluate it, since if there is something to be gleaned from and then make your decision.

There are people with alot of experience if various aspects of this business (signage specifically, I'm the odd duck here, I'm exclusively embroidery, which puts me more along the lines of the people that you are considering buying their business).

We learn more from our mistakes then we do from our successes.

Although, I'm surprised about you saying this considering you also said this:



You want to hear other opinions with different perspectives? Don't you think cautionary negative perspectives might be forthcoming? Are did you want only different positive perspectives?



I love using tech, tech has been apart of my life since I was a little kid. Unfortunately, without knowing the more traditional basics, it's really hard to yoke tech to it's fullest. Even using digital means, there are times we I still have to plot each individual stitch for the most advanced patterns (which you will have to do if you want to be making the money that you want to be making).

It's best to know both in order to realize full potential.



Hard to know without knowing the incoming knowledge base versus the old.

For instance, do you know when to use certain techniques at a certain size to achieve a certain effect when they are wanting something really small (and/or when to switch speed, needle size, thread weight etc)? If you don't and the people that you bought from did and it was a part of the product that this customer got, that will be noticed.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from branching out (without knowing all the particulars it's hard to say one way or the other), but getting more info before judgement is what I'm advocating. Making sure that everything is going to be seamless during the transition (are you going to get training from the previous owner?)?

Now I'm getting more detailed then most on buying a business like this as that's what I've been doing the majority of my life specifically. Pretty much like what the people that you are thinking about buying from did.



More along the lines of this:



If this is your biggest reason for doing something, without totally understanding the financials of the business your buying. I'm not too sure about your experience level, but if it's not to the same as the people that you are buying from, then keeping the same quality.

I understand the allure of it all, but without knowing more and without knowing how much it's going to take to make it even worth the investment before you start seeing a return, that's "flying by the seat of your pants".

Totally agreed! As mentioned I didn’t expect this forum to be up tight. I have a completely different perspective on life and the way I live it. The owners wants to stay on a help on a subcontracted basis they absolutely aren’t trying to pawn off the business and dip out. Learning from them directly will most certainly advance our skill set another reason why I’m saying I dont want to just offer peanuts. It’s a difference with providing negative feedback and sharing opposing feedback. One comes from a total self absorbed a-hole, the latter comes from a place of wanting to educate and impart wisdom. I love to hear feedback whether negative or positive but ultimately I don’t based my decision on them. While they may subconsciously affect the decision I’m sure, I’m careful to guard against that. Your response was respectful although we see things differently, it was respectful and from this an actual conversation can evolve.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Hey, maybe they will be the 1st ones to make a billion dollar business in this industry. Sounds like they're getting a good start on a business that selling. I say follow your gut and do it, what's the worst that can happen? It's only money and your time.

 

[Stacy1203]

So as long as one of us tells you want to hear, they are a genius. Others equally as wise as your cheerleader are warning you about potential problems, pitfalls and oversights, but you just plow ahead.

FWIW, out of 50 B&B's in our market area, after one year we were ranked in the top 5 on TripAdvisor and remained there for the entire 8 years we were in business without even asking for reviews while others were sending guests home with scripted reviews and constant reminders about posting a review once the guest got home. Which is now standard practice.

We didn't get out of the business due to failing, we got out due to being disgusted with the business practices you must adopt or suffer the fallout from.

We didn't bet wrong, disruptors looking for a quick buck came in and infected an industry that has been around for centuries.

Hey Tim, it’s a difference between sharing an opposing perspective and being a completely rude person. I actually also run 2 property Airbnb and never ask my guests to leave reviews that’s kinda creepy and unauthentic if you ask me. I do it for fun and it brings in a separate income as well. I would’ve never started and ran a B&B through grit and determination but someone built a platform and opened the doors for more people to experience what it would be like. It’s all about adaptability you gotta roll with the times bud! That’s just how it is. If I had listened to everyone who told me to keep my job although travels and schedule were literally driving me mad I’d be seriously in a bad mental space today. Everyone thought I was nuts but I followed my instincts and I’m here today loving it. My cheerleaders that encouraged me to jump didn’t directly influence my jump I just knew it had to be done for personal fulfillment. Lighten up it’s never this serious. I don’t want you to agree with me but no need to go bat sh*t crazy either. It’s a forum for Christ sakes

 

[TimToad]

Totally agreed! As mentioned I didn’t expect this forum to be up tight. I have a completely different perspective on life and the way I live it. The owners wants to stay on a help on a subcontracted basis they absolutely aren’t trying to pawn off the business and dip out. Learning from them directly will most certainly advance our skill set another reason why I’m saying I dont want to just offer peanuts. It’s a difference with providing negative feedback and sharing opposing feedback. One comes from a total self absorbed a-hole, the latter comes from a place of wanting to educate and impart wisdom. I love to hear feedback whether negative or positive but ultimately I don’t based my decision on them. While they may subconsciously affect the decision I’m sure, I’m careful to guard against that. Your response was respectful although we see things differently, it was respectful and from this an actual conversation can evolve.

We're not uptight. Most of us are pragmatic, seasoned veterans of a craft that is a lot harder to succeed at for less ROI than many other investment opportunities. If you want just back patting and encouragement, you should have just asked for that, not business advice.

Who's to say the sellers know what they are doing enough to do much beyond survive and fudge on their taxes? We looked at over two dozen B&Bs to purchase and they all ran their books just like the two you are negotiating with.

When we bought our current sign business 5 years ago and brought 35 years worth of experience and expertise to it, the outgoing owners who had over 10 years experience couldn't leave fast enough despite wanting to stay on at an inflated salary to "help" teach us how to run the business. Within a few months of taking over, we knew all we needed to know about the nuts and bolts of the business. The rest is implementation of one's expertise and skills. Our first year surpassed their best year and we've grown steadily 10% annually along with more profitability and never looked back.

If you or your hubby don't possess advanced skills in the software programs needed to operate a creative services business, you will be forced to pay for it to be done by others.

We're not idiots. We put in the work, the research and the effort on a daily basis to make this thing a success for us and eventually for whoever buys it from us.

 

[Stacy1203]

Hey, maybe they will be the 1st ones to make a billion dollar business in this industry. Sounds like they're getting a good start on a business that selling. I say follow your gut and do it, what's the worst that can happen? It's only money and your time.

You may be right Pal! If we decide to take a jump at it the worst that can happen is we learn learn learn, can’t put a price on that. They didn’t teach me this in college and paying back my student loans sucked more haha talk about a rip off.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You may be right Pal! If we decide to take a jump at it the worst that can happen is we learn learn learn, can’t put a price on that. They didn’t teach me this in college and paying back my student loans sucked more haha talk about a rip off.

No college debt for me. Did 2 years for free thanks to HOPE scholarship in Georgia.

I did spend 5 years working and learning at a sign shop, followed by another 5 years building my own business before I was able to make a living...

Come to think about it, I could of been a lawyer in less time.

 

[Stacy1203]

We're not uptight. Most of us are pragmatic, seasoned veterans of a craft that is a lot harder to succeed at for less ROI than many other investment opportunities. If you want just back patting and encouragement, you should have just asked for that, not business advice.

Who's to say the sellers know what they are doing enough to do much beyond survive and fudge on their taxes? We looked at over two dozen B&Bs to purchase and they all ran their books just like the two you are negotiating with.

When we bought our current sign business 5 years ago and brought 35 years worth of experience and expertise to it, the outgoing owners who had over 10 years experience couldn't leave fast enough despite wanting to stay on at an inflated salary to "help" teach us how to run the business. Within a few months of taking over, we knew all we needed to know about the nuts and bolts of the business. The rest is implementation of one's expertise and skills. Our first year surpassed their best year and we've grown steadily 10% annually along with more profitability and never looked back.

If you or your hubby don't possess advanced skills in the software programs needed to operate a creative services business, you will be forced to pay for it to be done by others.

We're not idiots. We put in the work, the research and the effort on a daily basis to make this thing a success for us and eventually for whoever buys it from us.

Good for you Pal! See it’s not always a sh*try situation. I know darn well you didn’t get to where you are now without some scrapes on those knees and probably tear filled nights. Experience is the best teacher! Not to say I will or will not purchase this business but now that everyone has calmed the heck down we’re actually having civil conversations! Refreshing! Glad your business is flourishing I will you so much more success.

 

[TimToad]

Hey Tim, it’s a difference between sharing an opposing perspective and being a completely rude person. I actually also run 2 property Airbnb and never ask my guests to leave reviews that’s kinda creepy and unauthentic if you ask me. I do it for fun and it brings in a separate income as well. I would’ve never started and ran a B&B through grit and determination but someone built a platform and opened the doors for more people to experience what it would be like. It’s all about adaptability you gotta roll with the times bud! That’s just how it is. If I had listened to everyone who told me to keep my job although travels and schedule were literally driving me mad I’d be seriously in a bad mental space today. Everyone thought I was nuts but I followed my instincts and I’m here today loving it. My cheerleaders that encouraged me to jump didn’t directly influence my jump I just knew it had to be done for personal fulfillment. Lighten up it’s never this serious. I don’t want you to agree with me but no need to go bat sh*t crazy either. It’s a forum for Christ sakes

It's plenty serious for the people in Florida in the same business who are doing what they can to survive no small measure of industry consolidation, technological advances, wholesalers selling to the public, disruptors taking wholesale prices and marking them up a few pennies and polluting a long established price structure because they felt like doing it in "their soul".

But as long as your "personally fulfilled" that's all that matters.

I'm plenty light and no this isn't b+t sh&t crazy.

It's a forum you came to asking for answers on a matters of money and investments. If that doesn't deserve a far less cavalier approach than you've projected, I don't know what is.

Sorry but must skate off to a wonderful outdoor beer, food and cider festival with live music and over 75 craft brewers in attendance. Now that's light and a lot more fun than this thread.

 

[Stacy1203]

No college debt for me. Did 2 years for free thanks to HOPE scholarship in Georgia.

I did spend 5 years working and learning at a sign shop, followed by another 5 years building my own business before I was able to make a living...

Come to think about it, I could of been a lawyer in less time.

Hahaha! Hey but at least you followed your dreams!! You put the work in and now look at you running a successful business and all! Goooo you! Sending you all the more business and success your way! : )

 

[Stacy1203]

It's plenty serious for the people in Florida in the same business who are doing what they can to survive no small measure of industry consolidation, technological advances, wholesalers selling to the public, disruptors taking wholesale prices and marking them up a few pennies and polluting a long established price structure because they felt like doing it in "their soul".

But as long as your "personally fulfilled" that's all that matters.

I'm plenty light and no this isn't b+t sh&t crazy.

It's a forum you came to asking for answers on a matters of money and investments. If that doesn't deserve a far less cavalier approach than you've projected, I don't know what is.

Sorry but must skate off to a wonderful outdoor beer, food and cider festival with live music and over 75 craft brewers in attendance. Now that's light and a lot more fun than this thread.

Tim no one in their right mind would come to a forum to get answers on money and investment. It’s here for thought provoking conversations among digital friends. Have fun at your festival!

 

[equippaint]

You know what’s funny... as nasty as you are! “It’s an asset sale pure and simple” is the line I agreed with. No matter how rude you guys are I will always pick out the sense from the nonsense in your answers. Please do keep them coming.

You know, what you missed with your inflated ego and bravado is that you came in here and passively insulted 90% of the business owners on the board yet want to start calling others nasty. You do know that most everyone here has started their business and grew them through sweat equity. While you stated you started with your blessed fortune (I don't think god blesses money or boastfulness) and left your 6 figure jobs, many here left their $25k/yr jobs to make something of themselves and did not have anything to get going. You are insinuating that you are smarter than us all because you have some magic sauce that we are all too dumb to know about. Reality will hit you at some point, right now the economy is good but once it slows I feel that you will be bucked off that high horse you rode in on. You don't even understand basic business financials and come in blazing about building a billion dollar empire. You can throw around dollar figures with your sales, salary, savings or whatever but it does not impress anyone. It's about like listening to a dumb person tell everyone how smart they are.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Hahaha! Hey but at least you followed your dreams!! You put the work in and now look at you running a successful business and all! Goooo you! Sending you all the more business and success your way! : )

Yea...my dreams! I dreamed of working in a small bucket in cold rain and wind since I was a little boy! I also dreamed of people sending me 200x200 web images and Publisher files to make signs that they need this afternoon.

There are easier ways to make a living...I just so happen to get a job at a sign company when I was 19..too late to change now.

I will say most days I'm satisfied with my work, that's all that matters

 

[Stacy1203]

You know, what you missed with your inflated ego and bravado is that you came in here and passively insulted 90% of the business owners on the board yet want to start calling others nasty. You do know that most everyone here has started their business and grew them through sweat equity. While you stated you started with your blessed fortune (I don't think god blesses money or boastfulness) and left your 6 figure jobs, many here left their $25k/yr jobs to make something of themselves and did not have anything to get going. You are insinuating that you are smarter than us all because you have some magic sauce that we are all too dumb to know about. Reality will hit you at some point, right now the economy is good but once it slows I feel that you will be bucked off that high horse you rode in on. You don't even understand basic business financials and come in blazing about building a billion dollar empire. You can throw around dollar figures with your sales, salary, savings or whatever but it does not impress anyone. It's about like listening to a dumb person tell everyone how smart they are.

Sadly, this is a reflection of how you feel inside. I wish you well my friend and all the success to come your way! Don’t be afraid to aim high and dream you’ll be surprised at the wonders you can accomplish.

 

[Stacy1203]

Yea...my dreams! I dreamed of working in a small bucket in cold rain and wind since I was a little boy! I also dreamed of people sending me 200x200 web images and Publisher files to make signs that they need this afternoon.

There are easier ways to make a living...I just so happen to get a job at a sign company when I was 19..too late to change now.

I will say most days I'm satisfied with my work, that's all that matters

Haha not the 200x200 web design!! Hilarious!! All we can do is educate them more often than not they really have no idea how it works. Keep pushing and don’t give up! It’ll all work out pal!

 

[Gino]

1203....... you honestly sound like you've been a member here for a long time. You've got the various people pegged. I like your style. In reality, if you don't try, you can't possibly succeed. Use this place for more simple questions like what kinda ink to buy for cheap..... or where do I buy posts for my sign ?? That's the level of most around here. Hence, why you're getting such a push-back.

Anyway, welcome to the s101 sandbox and learn to play on THEIR level...............

 

[equippaint]

Sadly, this is a reflection of how you feel inside. I wish you well my friend and all the success to come your way! Don’t be afraid to aim high and dream you’ll be surprised at the wonders you can accomplish.

Wrong, it's a reflection of how I feel about you on the outside you presumptuous nitwit. I'm already accomplished lady, get over yourself its annoying.

 

[equippaint]

1203....... you honestly sound like you've been a member here for a long time. You've got the various people pegged. I like your style. In reality, if you don't try, you can't possibly succeed. Use this place for more simple questions like what kinda ink to buy for cheap..... or where do I buy posts for my sign ?? That's the level of most around here. Hence, why you're getting such a push-back.

Anyway, welcome to the s101 sandbox and learn to play on THEIR level...............

did you kidnap gino? nobody will pay his ransom, might as well let him go.