reflective & water application

[gabagoo]

I have known for years that using soap and water with reflective is a no no,but wondered if Rapid tac is any better?
I also would love to know the technical reasons why it can be bad? Is it releated only to 3M products? or any reflective.

I just need to know as I am having severe difficulties getting a 4" stripe on the new Ford pickup as the wheel wells have a huge indentation which is killing me.

Help

 

[strypguy]

Not sure why you can't but I do and have on occasion for the last 20 years. I use alittle water and johnsons baby shampoo.

I currently own a 70 boss 302 mustang with reflective vinyl on it that I applied over 3 years ago and it looks as good as the day I did it.

Most smaller stuff I apply dry but anything large enough to give me a fit then I will use the baby shampoo and water.

I've used it on many fire dept. vehicles as well and nothing has failed yet.
Some were done over 10 years ago.

John

 

[Pat Whatley]

I almost always apply reflective wet. Typically I use Rapid Tac for it but in a pinch I have use soap/alcohol/water. I've never had discoloration, I've never had a failure.

I had a fleet of vans that used a 4'x4' reflective logo. I did 36 vans over the course of three years. The people who stripped them to do "god awful" wraps later played hell getting the stuff off.

 

[gabagoo]

it is comforting to know that it can be done but wonder why I have been told for many years that soap and water can compromise the vinyl. Possible delaminating may be an issue, but now wonder after reading your 2 posts if it is BS!!!

Mind tellingme what brandof reflective you used wet?

 

[weaselboogie]

On occasion, i've done wet app on vinyl too. The oldest jobs that I've seen is 8+ years old and still looks just as good.

 

[Fred Weiss]

The reasons for the dry recommendation are two.

1. The manufacturers, such as 3M and Avery, recommend dry and recommend against wet.

2. A number of years back there was a lot of pics on line of failures where the reflective film actually developed mildew (presumably from wet application).

 

[Pat Whatley]

The fleet lettering was done using Nikkalite (still the best conforming reflective ever, in my opinion) The more recent stuff has been a mix of 3M and GMI.

 

[Williams Signs]

Oracal 5600 goes down wet but be sure to get all the liquid out. If not when it is parked in the sun it will actually swell like a balloon.

 

[Edserv]

We used to try wet apps, but after using the "big squeegee" and purchasing a 40 inch cold lam, we've NEVER done another wet app. NONE.
If you're still trying wet apps, you may consider that you have not learned how to apply the proper vinyl on the proper media/substrate.

Wet apps don't work.

After you master dry-apps, you'll NEVER do another wet app.
(I'm sure I'll get kicked for this post, but it's the truth. After buying the "big squeegee" and learning how to buy the right vinyl, there is NO WAY we would ever do a wet app again.)

Good luck,
Chris
let go banners
tsunami wraps

 

[AUTO-FX]

Edserv, you're using "the big squeegee" to apply reflective materials to the sides of trucks?

 

[Jillbeans]

I use Rapid Tac 2 for reflective.
I do try to do it dry when I can, but sometimes I can't.
Love....Jill

 

[BobM]

There are times when wet is the only way to go. I always clean with Rapid Prep twice first. Spray Rapid Tac II and apply. Just makes life easier.

 

[JdaddioN]

I never install Reflective wet. Had Surgery in Jan. of this year and contracted an Installer to install 3M Reflective Vinyls to Ambulance. I had told the installer NOT to apply the striping and lettering wet when the Vinyl was handed over to him. 3 Months later reflective started failing. Come to find out the Installer did install wet anyhow. I had to redo entire job to keep the customer I've had for past 15 years. I would not Install wet. They have ControlTac Reflective (3M) Vinyl out if your worried about installing and getting bubbles.

 

[signmeup]

Wet apps don't work.

Baloney!

I do 18 wheelers with a reflective logo over regular vinyl. (gives the logo a nice outline and makes removal a lot easier down the road) I do the regular vinyl dry 'cause it's faster then I do the reflective over it wet so I can see to line it up. No failures in 5 years and these trucks are on the road a lot more than a regular vehicle. I've only done 50 of these though.

Reflective vinyl is made of regular vinyl with tiny glass spheres in it. (that's why it rips so easily) How do glass spheres mold or corrode? If getting the reflective wet is a no-no, what do you do when it rains on the finished vehicle?

I should mention that I use Rapid Tac not soapy water. I go through a spray bottle every year or so. I apply stuff wet when it makes sense to do so. Especially when lining up layered vinyl. I've never seen a failure because of it.

 

[signmeup]

I never install Reflective wet. Had Surgery in Jan. of this year and contracted an Installer to install 3M Reflective Vinyls to Ambulance. I had told the installer NOT to apply the striping and lettering wet when the Vinyl was handed over to him. 3 Months later reflective started failing. Come to find out the Installer did install wet anyhow. I had to redo entire job to keep the customer I've had for past 15 years. I would not Install wet. They have ControlTac Reflective (3M) Vinyl out if your worried about installing and getting bubbles.

I'd suggest you stop using 3m reflective then. The stuff I use doesn't know if you applied it wet or dry. It's called "KIWA" and I get from TCT graphics in Toronto.

 

[AUTO-FX]

yeah, i personally have not installed 3M reflective wet, but i've seen the mildew issues. There are better reflectives available. I saw the Oracal guys at the orlando show demo their reflective - really good stuff and nice workability - dry.

 

[gabagoo]

We used to try wet apps, but after using the "big squeegee" and purchasing a 40 inch cold lam, we've NEVER done another wet app. NONE.
If you're still trying wet apps, you may consider that you have not learned how to apply the proper vinyl on the proper media/substrate.

Wet apps don't work.

After you master dry-apps, you'll NEVER do another wet app.
(I'm sure I'll get kicked for this post, but it's the truth. After buying the "big squeegee" and learning how to buy the right vinyl, there is NO WAY we would ever do a wet app again.)

Good luck,
Chris
let go banners
tsunami wraps

dude.... I use the BS all the time and in fact very seldom ever do wet apps.
If you have looked at a new Ford pickup truck you will see the problem. There is a contour that is very deep that runs along the tops of the wheel wells making a dry application of a 4" stripe damn hard and in some cases very wasteful of 96" of striping. I generally prefer to premask my reflective striping for dry application and tried, but when it hits the deep gorge on this pick up it is impossible to maneuver, so I tried it without premask and I got one side down OK, but the other screwed me around twice wasting 16' of striping that does not come cheap. I finally gave in and sprayed a bit of Rapid Tac to get it to take the hard contour and used a soft squeegee to get out all the moisture.

I have seen mould before in reflective but I was convinced it was from a no touch car wash leaching acid into the reflective.

 

[gabagoo]

I'd suggest you stop using 3m reflective then. The stuff I use doesn't know if you applied it wet or dry. It's called "KIWA" and I get from TCT graphics in Toronto.

YES thats the stuff I used with the white backing!!!! Thats a bit of relief as I have 7 more of the Govt vehicles to do. I will say that when I did encounter the mould on some of the vehicles I did for CBSA about 6 years ago it was the same vinyl but we had applied it dry so we determined it was coming from a no touch car wash that they frequented out by the airport. Never really got an answer from TCT as to the problem though.

 

[Techman]

Part of the reflective elements of reflective vinyl is made from aluminum.

3M Scotchlight reflective for sure has/had an aluminum layer.
If anyone cares to read about it,
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtUNYt9o8_Gev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--

I have seen mould before in reflective

The mold is the aluminum molecules corroding under the top clear sheet.

I had some of the "A" word stuff turn black some years ago. I looked at it under a microscope and it appeared to be corrosion.

 

[TheSnowman]

Wet apps don't work.

It is amazing to me that you say this in spite of people saying that they haven't had issues years and years and years later. We did a 12' long reflective stripe wet 4+ years ago, and it still looks great. The manufacturers also sometimes say not to mix and match laminates, but that doesn't mean it can't be done w/o failure. They are just covering their butts. It CAN be done.