reflective & water application

[signmeup]

Part of the reflective elements of reflective vinyl is made from aluminum.

3M Scotchlight reflective for sure has/had an aluminum layer.
If anyone cares to read about it,
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtUNYt9o8_Gev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--



The mold is the aluminum molecules corroding under the top clear sheet.

I had some of the "A" word stuff turn black some years ago. I looked at it under a microscope and it appeared to be corrosion.

"3M™ Scotchlite™ Reflective Material – Transfer Films are designed for use on safety garments and in athletic and casual wear.
"

We're talking about vehicle graphics here, not clothing. Try to follow along.

 

[ravitan]

hallo u all from worm israel
i have a problem hear
i applyeid reflective 5 years china made on polycarbonate
100\250 cm
wet white shoap
a lot of bubbeles turn on the nexst day
u can see a pic heare
(wornning not 4 a weak hart
http://imageupload.org/?d=4D99ECB61
i nearly up my mind to make it all new
the bubbels r empty only air no wather inside
(im sorry that its my first post, beutifull pics will come nexst

thanks 4 all hgelpers
ronen

JV 3 SP2 130
US CUTTER 54"

 

[MikePro]

the bubles might not be filled with water, but they are filled with water vapor.

highly recommended, if not absolutely necessary, to NOT apply reflective with water. If your supplier doesn't have an air-egress version of reflective, at least laminate another vinyl that allows for wet application with reflective before cutting/applying.

 

[Mike Paul]

hallo u all from worm israel
i have a problem hear
i applyeid reflective 5 years china made on polycarbonate
100\250 cm
wet white shoap
a lot of bubbeles turn on the nexst day
u can see a pic heare
(wornning not 4 a weak hart
http://imageupload.org/?d=4D99ECB61
i nearly up my mind to make it all new
the bubbels r empty only air no wather inside
(im sorry that its my first post, beutifull pics will come nexst

thanks 4 all hgelpers
ronen

JV 3 SP2 130
US CUTTER 54"

Polycarbonate outgassing will cause bubbles.

 

[signmeup]

Cut and pasted from the other thread:

I've never noticed the protective liner to have any bubbles under it. Presumably the protective liner was installed long before any "out-gassing" would have finished taking place. Why is the liner immune to out-gassing?

I believe Mikepro has put his finger on the real cause. Water expands when it turns to steam in the hot sun. Especially with dark colours. Squeegee all the water out next time.

 

[Techman]

We're talking about vehicle graphics here, not clothing. Try to follow along.

The link was to provide information about reflective and the components.

A polite person would say thank you for providing technical information. An uplifting person would appreciate the work that someone does when someone attempts to provide information that could further our comprehension.

 

[petesign]

I'm debating using some Rapid Tac to try an install over again. I don't do the installs here, but we had a case where we needed some translucent vinyl applied on some white acrylic. Once you put it on the light, you see tiny bubbles everywhere that make the sign look dirty. I know it's air bubbles, but this vinyl had no air egress, so I am debating leaving it out in the sun and seeing what happens, or starting over and trying a wet install. These spots are freaking tiny, but sure look like crap once lit.

 

[signmeup]

The link was to provide information about reflective and the components.

A polite person would say thank you for providing technical information. An uplifting person would appreciate the work that someone does when someone attempts to provide information that could further our comprehension.

That was joke son, I say, a joke. I keep hittin em and you keep missin em.....

 

[gabagoo]

Polycarbonate outgassing will cause bubbles.

this is true and I have had outgassing problems with polycarbonite in the past and have steered clear of it ever since. Makes one wonder how you would not get outgassing?
If I remember correctly, I had to sandwich the vinyl with a thin layer of polycarbonite clear over the graphics to protect them as the sign boxes were at eye level...so I think the sandwiching effect caused the issue.

 

[Techman]

I still believe out gassing is a myth in just about 98% of all pickle skin cases.
If one applies vinyl to a slick surface and gets bubbles it gets blamed for some nefarious vapor emanating from the substrate.

However, have the installer apply the vinyl to a painted sheet of aluminum, or to glass or to any super slick surface and they get bubbles then it is a sure sign of installer technique. I have never observed out-gassing problems in vinyl application. I have observed lots of installer mistakes including myself making a few.

Once we had a run of license plates with large patches of vinyl. One installer did about 7 of them and every single one had chicken pox all over them.
Another installer did a large number of them and only had an occasional blister.

The very same pox installer always had trouble on glass, or aluminum or plastic. It didn't matter.

I believe that a blistered application is when small amounts of air gets trapped under the vinyl and is compressed by the squeegee. I believe this because so often the blisters appear much later in the day. However they never seem to spread to different areas. if there was gas vapor then those blisters would appear in additional places other than where they did at the very beginning. And would continue to do so for hours.

 

[GAC05]

I'm thinking tiny gyroscopes could be at fault here but I may be confused.


wayne k
guam usa