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ROFL.... "Print" shops

TimToad

Active Member
I guess this statement of mine got skipped over while planning his next ad hominem attack, but it appears that I'm not just in it for the creative gratification. Or maybe he was testing his spellchecker. "While I've always enjoyed a comfortable middle class existence thanks to applying myself and working in the sign industry, I've rarely met anyone who thought this was the easiest field to make a killing in."

I most certainly work hard and for the money just like anybody else and command a decent and fair price for our efforts.

In fact, the living I've made in this wonderful trade along with my wife's hard work and our smart investments allowed us to take a 16 month, 35,000 mile leisurely RV tour of the U.S. and Canada AT THE AGE OF 42 with everything including the RV paid for with cash. We visited more national parks, saw more amazing scenery, painted landscapes, fished, hiked, visited friends and family all over then most people do in a lifetime. So much for the false narrative being spread about me being all work and no play. I challenge anyone to take a year and a half off with NO income, doing what makes you happy, seeing the sights and enjoying life to its fullest.

While you guys are busy counting all your money and thinking you've outsmarted the entire industry, the multiple shops you rely on for a good chunk of your income, installation work, component building, warehousing, welding, powdercoating, etc.... are all out there investing in their own infrastructures which help make it possible for both of your business model's to even exist. If they rolled up their businesses and disappeared, you'd be struggling to suddenly reinvest in everything you' need to keep pushing product out the door.

I've worked in four locations around this country and find sign installers first/signmakers second nearly all the same. Most wouldn't survive were it not for the half a dozen or more shops who can't or won't do their own installations doing all the heavy lifting of investing in shops, equipment, labor, materials, etc.. and feeding them their install work. It's not brain surgery we're all doing and the installation part is even simpler than coming up with cool looking signs and building them. I've done it in every size shop imaginable, been up there in the bucket, you name it.

I could triple my income if all I had to worry about was getting an installers license, a truck, a lift and some tools. The shops who can't or won't do their installations are at the installers mercy and have no other options to go to, its a hostage like situation. They make signs and either can't figure out how to get them up or don't want to, so in comes the professional sign installer, who usually charges premium rates, does things when its convenient to them and while out on someone else's job, can talk to any prospects who see them and their lettered truck on the street.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I challenge anyone to take a year and a half off with NO income, doing what makes you happy, seeing the sights and enjoying life to its fullest.

No thanks... Anything over a 2 hour ride in the car and I start contemplating divorce...

I gotta give you this, you must really have a good marriage to want to do that for a year and a half in an RV.


And quit with the spelling comments. Sometimes I'm typing on a phone and dont sit here reviewing all the auplto corrects.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
It's almost like there is a script or something with these threads. Tends to end with "My boom lift is bigger than your boom lift!"
 

TimToad

Active Member
No thanks... Anything over a 2 hour ride in the car and I start contemplating divorce...

I gotta give you this, you must really have a good marriage to want to do that for a year and a half in an RV.


And quit with the spelling comments. Sometimes I'm typing on a phone and dont sit here reviewing all the auplto corrects.

Ummm..... isn't having a great marriage a good thing?

Try working with your loved one 10 hours a day, you'll learn what true love, patience and teamwork really means.

While on the road, we met TONS of other "full-timers" as those living full time in their RVs are called and most were living wonderful lives liberated from the daily pressures of life.

Sorry, you don't get to request jackshite from me. You've crossed too many lines and are now stuck wirh me. I tried a dozen times to let my autocorrect spell "infrengement" and it wouldn't do it. Lay off the judgements and ad hominem attacks on me or anyone else and I'll take your request under advisement.

Have a good evening.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
With California having almost three times the state income tax as Illinois I would think his price would be in line with what you charge in your area. But there are many factors that go into each shop’s pricing as to what the market can handle?
As kcollensdesigns always tells us his work habits, I think this will be the way everything will be accomplished in the future. Kind of like the hand signpainters tried to hold on when the Gerber first hit the market with vinyl cut out letters.
 

kcollinsdesign

Old member
I guess this statement of mine got skipped over while planning his next ad hominem attack, but it appears that I'm not just in it for the creative gratification. Or maybe he was testing his spellchecker. "While I've always enjoyed a comfortable middle class existence thanks to applying myself and working in the sign industry, I've rarely met anyone who thought this was the easiest field to make a killing in."

I most certainly work hard and for the money just like anybody else and command a decent and fair price for our efforts.

In fact, the living I've made in this wonderful trade along with my wife's hard work and our smart investments allowed us to take a 16 month, 35,000 mile leisurely RV tour of the U.S. and Canada AT THE AGE OF 42 with everything including the RV paid for with cash. We visited more national parks, saw more amazing scenery, painted landscapes, fished, hiked, visited friends and family all over then most people do in a lifetime. So much for the false narrative being spread about me being all work and no play. I challenge anyone to take a year and a half off with NO income, doing what makes you happy, seeing the sights and enjoying life to its fullest.

While you guys are busy counting all your money and thinking you've outsmarted the entire industry, the multiple shops you rely on for a good chunk of your income, installation work, component building, warehousing, welding, powdercoating, etc.... are all out there investing in their own infrastructures which help make it possible for both of your business model's to even exist. If they rolled up their businesses and disappeared, you'd be struggling to suddenly reinvest in everything you' need to keep pushing product out the door.

I've worked in four locations around this country and find sign installers first/signmakers second nearly all the same. Most wouldn't survive were it not for the half a dozen or more shops who can't or won't do their own installations doing all the heavy lifting of investing in shops, equipment, labor, materials, etc.. and feeding them their install work. It's not brain surgery we're all doing and the installation part is even simpler than coming up with cool looking signs and building them. I've done it in every size shop imaginable, been up there in the bucket, you name it.

I could triple my income if all I had to worry about was getting an installers license, a truck, a lift and some tools. The shops who can't or won't do their installations are at the installers mercy and have no other options to go to, its a hostage like situation. They make signs and either can't figure out how to get them up or don't want to, so in comes the professional sign installer, who usually charges premium rates, does things when its convenient to them and while out on someone else's job, can talk to any prospects who see them and their lettered truck on the street.

Mr. Toad,

My experience has been quite different. At one time we had four electric sign shops in my metro area of 100,000, and a half dozen commercial shops some of whom had small cranes or bucket trucks. I was running one of the electric shops, and we had a good sized fleet of service vehicles. We were marginally friendly to each other and competed fiercely. I came to realize we had more cranes and bucket trucks in our town than was actually needed. When I sold the electric company and left (after a few years of working for the new owners), I went around to all the sign companies and offered to let them do my installs. They all thought I was nuts, gave me silly high prices and tried to steal my clients. So I went to the electric (not sign) companies, and they were thrilled to get some extra work for their cranes and bucket trucks, gave me reasonable prices, and never tried to steal my customers (unless it was for electrical work).

Now we have two electric sign shops in our town. One experienced installer started his own installation company and relies on me for work (he also does parking lot lighting and other things requiring cranes and bucket trucks). The electric companies still get work from me. The electric sign companies are perfectly content getting signs forwarded to them from national accounts, and do very little fabrication (their large format printers and CNC routers are sitting in the corner collecting dust). Everyone, in this town at least, has copied my model of outsourcing, and (other than a couple of companies who fought the change), are doing better than ever. We all get along great, and I have more work than I can handle doing design and project management work for both myself and the other companies.
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
I think there are 3 different ways to make money in this business:

1.) Full service shop where you charge for installation and solid design services. Good salespeople and skilled craftsman. Outsource as much 'basic' production as you can, especially stuff like banners and yardsigns. Make the money on service.

2.) Niche shops that center around a specific industry. For example a shop that focuses on working with all the local high schools, or does compliance and labeling for the big manufacturers in town. The focus is a customer base, and providing that need, so run a few core competencies in house and sub out the rest.

3.) Big shops that run volume, lots of ink, making a few cents a square foot running thousands of units daily.
 
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