• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Router Question

Blaster

Adam B.
Ok, I know someone out there has had this problem so looking for advice. This is an older 4x8 router we have and just learning the process etc. Using Artcam and Mach 3. My edges always seem to have chatter for lack of a better term creating ridges in the edges. As I said the router is older. R&P X and Y w Ballscrew for Z. Mach 3 has backlash compensation in it but currently have it set to 0. Am I correct in assuming that's what this is? Any help much appreciated.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2228.JPG
    IMG_2228.JPG
    693.6 KB · Views: 438
  • IMG_2227.JPG
    IMG_2227.JPG
    762.8 KB · Views: 400

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
2 Things.... What is your RPM, Feed Rate, and Plunge Depth?

2nd, those look like node points since they are equal all the way through did you check to see if your software is converting arcs to line segments?
 

Blaster

Adam B.
Hey, Feedrate is 200ipm. 1/4 upcut 2 flute bit at 18000rpm. Plunge depth was approx. .25. 3 pass in 3/4 plywood. I don't think its converting to segments as the larger arcs are smoother but not perfect.
 

tbullo

Superunknown
I agree, looks like its following nodes with 3 pass. If that's not it, maybe turn the router on and move it to different spots on the table and check the gantry by hand on each side for any x,y movement.
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
That's really fast rpm for a 2 flute bit.... Have you done the math on your chipload to compare it to your bits recommend chipload?

I can tell you that if that is 3 passes it has to be a node issue because your "chatter" is symetrical and equal all the way through. If it was true chatter it would be unequal and alot smaller.

Can you post up your dxf or input file for us to look at?
 

Blaster

Adam B.
That's really fast rpm for a 2 flute bit.... Have you done the math on your chipload to compare it to your bits recommend chipload?

I can tell you that if that is 3 passes it has to be a node issue because your "chatter" is symetrical and equal all the way through. If it was true chatter it would be unequal and alot smaller.

Can you post up your dxf or input file for us to look at?

Here's the file,
 

Attachments

  • Skullboy.txt
    19.7 KB · Views: 273

GaSouthpaw

Profane and profane accessories.
As others said, looks like nodes. I would think cleaning up the artwork would correct most of those problems.
Having a vacuum hold-down would correct a lot more of them that might pop up. If that table doesn't have one, I'd highly recommend one.
 

Blaster

Adam B.
It has a vac system but I don't have a pump for it. I had been screwing the material down to the spoils board which I've seen others do. Will look into getting pump.
 

astro8

New Member
looks like slop in the system, poor hold down..all your curves are output as arcs, your lines contain all the nodes.
 

Blaster

Adam B.
looks like slop in the system, poor hold down..all your curves are output as arcs, your lines contain all the nodes.
Understood. I feel like there is some slop in it just due to the fact its over 9 years old and theyre steppers. So hold down, nodes, slop. What can I do about the slop. I was under the impression that's what backlash compensation is for.
 

astro8

New Member
Backlash adjustment for routers is more or less useless, it's more for laser engravers. You will have to physically remove the slop in the system or cut a lot slower producing inferior parts until you do.
See if you can adjust the pinion to mesh in with the teeth of the rack better or replace the pinions. Some types of ballscrew nuts can be tightened up or the the load nut at the end of the ballscrew can be adjusted up. Once you get all the slop out, it will feel like night and day cutting with an accurate machine. It's well worth the time, there's not much expense.

Where expense comes into it is vacuum pumps. It all depends on what you want to cut and what you can afford. Do your research, do lots of reading on the net and set up your system with the idea in mind that you will be adding in more vacuum down the line. You can never have enough vacuum. I started with one reg blower on the 8x4 table and ended up with two reg blowers and a rotary vane...it's pretty good, but you always want for more. Look for good second hand stuff, there's lots around.

Two smaller pumps are usually more versatile and economical than one big one as you can zone your table and use what you need at the time. Our biesse has 3x 300 m3/h rotary vanes on a 4.3mx2.2m table with 8 zones...it's very versatile as you can zone it so all that vacuum is concentrated into a 6 x 1 foot area if need be to hold down brass sheet etc, if need be.

Head on over to cnczone or the shopbot forum for plenty more info.
 

Blaster

Adam B.
Backlash adjustment for routers is more or less useless, it's more for laser engravers. You will have to physically remove the slop in the system or cut a lot slower producing inferior parts until you do.
See if you can adjust the pinion to mesh in with the teeth of the rack better or replace the pinions. Some types of ballscrew nuts can be tightened up or the the load nut at the end of the ballscrew can be adjusted up. Once you get all the slop out, it will feel like night and day cutting with an accurate machine. It's well worth the time, there's not much expense.

Where expense comes into it is vacuum pumps. It all depends on what you want to cut and what you can afford. Do your research, do lots of reading on the net and set up your system with the idea in mind that you will be adding in more vacuum down the line. You can never have enough vacuum. I started with one reg blower on the 8x4 table and ended up with two reg blowers and a rotary vane...it's pretty good, but you always want for more. Look for good second hand stuff, there's lots around.

Two smaller pumps are usually more versatile and economical than one big one as you can zone your table and use what you need at the time. Our biesse has 3x 300 m3/h rotary vanes on a 4.3mx2.2m table with 8 zones...it's very versatile as you can zone it so all that vacuum is concentrated into a 6 x 1 foot area if need be to hold down brass sheet etc, if need be.

Head on over to cnczone or the shopbot forum for plenty more info.

Thanks for the info. First off, the table didn't cost me anything, so I assumed I would be putting some money into it. To me it feels like one side is a bit looser than the other, I will make adjustments you spoke of. I was just happy to cut something out. As far as vac pumps, when I got the table it came w a phase converter for a pump but the pump had been inadvertently throw away so at least I have that. It is a 4 zone table for vac. The majority of work I expect to do is dimensional signs as well as acrylics, light aluminum etc.
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
Your file looks ok once I got it loaded. They are poly arcs all the way through.

I would next suspect stepper lash at specific points on the table for those marks to be so consistent. Have you tried running the job with no bit plunge to see if the spindle looks shakey around the curves?
 
Top