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Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
To those reading this thread who find may be looking for a way to break out of the price competition market and start selling at prices appropriate to the value you are delivering, I offer an example of how I conduct a sales presentation and close which has worked well for me for 27 years:

"Mr. Jones, here's what we propose as the best solution for your sign."

"Looks great! How much?

"$500.00. Shall I write it up?"

"Sounds kinda high. Budget Signs seemed to think he could do it for $350.00."

"We probably can too. Do you mind if your sign is only 1" think instead of 1.5" and we use two colors instead of three?"

"Well, I don't really know. It doesn't sound as good."

"It isn't but it's what we can do for $350.00. Do you want to order that version or the original sign for $500.00?"

"I want to think about it and talk to my partners."

"That's fine. We want you to choose the best solution for your needs and your budget. My recommendation though is to go with the sign that will make you look the best to your customers but, if your budget only allows for the lower priced version, you can still expect our best workmanship."

"When can you have it done?"

"If you order it today, we can have it installed this Friday. Do you want me to go ahead and write it up?"

"Yes ... and make it the $500.00 version."

"You've made an excellent decision, Mr. Jones, and you can expect a sign you'll be proud to display."

I have colored the sale closing statements in blue. The sales principles at work are to present the product to be sold and attempt to close the sale. that results in either a signed order or any objections being brought to light. The first close is a trial close and results in a price objection which is usually a test. Can I get this guy to drop his price just by asking? My response is cooperative and respectful of the client's budgetary needs. Again it is a trial close to see if his priority really is to get the sign for less money. The third close is an alternate of choice close. It assumes the client is ready to buy and only needs to choose the version. He next inserts a delaying of decision objection indicating he is still not quite sold and fears making a bad decision and not liking what we do for him. My response is cooperative and designed to provide assurance that we are a great choice to do his work. His response is what is called a "buy signal" indicating no additional selling or fact presentation need be made. It's time to close the sale. The final closing question results in Mr. Jones agreeing and also making his choice of version. Finally the interview ends with me assuring and reinforcing his decision.

Please note that I never knocked the competitor and was never overbearing with the customer or belittled him. I presented only what I could do for the customer and stood firm on my prices while offering a scaled back version if he really was on a budget. Notice that I did not close the sale on price at all ... I closed it on when the job would be completed. Such an attitude implies to the customer that he is dealing with an honest, quality vendor. My attitude throughout is that he can have great confidence in me and is highly likely to be pleased with the result.

If he ends up at budget signs, that's okay by me as well, because I cannot and will not devalue my work. Perhaps he'll order from me next time around.
 

mtmdesigns

New Member
you can google anything and within 10 minutes i can be become a member of janitor 101 and get toilet paper for wholesale, gotta deal with it.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I halfway agree, but at the same time halfway disagree. However, I don’t disagree with the reasons, just the results.

Fred’s latest method of closing a deal is pretty much across the board what everyone has to do… you have to strike while the iron is hot and that customer is right there in your shop. Face to face… I can close a deal with almost anyone, but when they’re on the phone or interneting….. you don’t have the same advantages…. AND that’s what this is all about.

Why is it that so many of the biggest wholesalers give us catalogs with pricing in it that we know [if you’re in the industry] that we’ll receive a hefty discount ??
Why is it, that vendors don’t give price lists or their catalogs to the general public ??
Aren’t we all an extension of some sign supply houses and by giving us all discounts we’re going to find a good one to do business with and stay loyal ??
How does advertising our prices to JOE PUBLIC help anyone ??
Advertising their wares and capabilities is one thing, but prices for everyone to see…. not so good.

Well, we might as well just post our prices on our front window so people can start window shopping again, if vendors can run ads like that on the internet.

Their phone numbers are available and when JOE PUBLIC calls them and asks for pricing…. If the company is not reputable, they’ll probably do and say anything to close that sale, just like Fred spoke of earlier.


Most of the wholesale companies I know of have phone numbers coming in from many fields.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1234…. they know it’s from a sign shop, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1235…. they know it’s from a trade magazine, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1236…. they know it’s from the street, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1237…. they know it’s from the internet, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
That’s how many wholesalers conduct business. I am not indicating that’s how anyone here does it, but I do know for a fact…. that’s how a lot of the big guys do it.

I know with our shop, we sell to the public and we wholesale, but I don’t give anyone off the street the prices I would give another sign shop. We also give 101-ers an even better discount then we give local shops. The big difference though is… we screen each and every call before we hand out prices. If you can’t prove you’re a sign shop and were trying to take an unfair advantage… we’ll drop ya like a hot potato. Won’t do business with thieves or crooks and someone posing as a sigh shop is just that in my book.

Therefore, why can’t all Merchant Members advertise anywhere they want on this site, but keep the prices hidden or only advertise full retail prices ??

Is that stopping anyone from advertising ??
Does that stop JOE PUBLIC from knowing what we pay ??
Would that help anyone who doesn’t want pricing show up out here??
Why would a Merchant not want to do it this way ??

Stricter rules and screening cannot add too much hassle or problems to any Merchant here at 101, but let’s wait to hear from them.
 

iSign

New Member
Therefore, why can’t all Merchant Members advertise anywhere they want on this site, but keep the prices hidden or only advertise full retail prices ??

Is that stopping anyone from advertising ??
Does that stop JOE PUBLIC from knowing what we pay ??
Would that help anyone who doesn’t want pricing show up out here??
Why would a Merchant not want to do it this way ??

Stricter rules and screening cannot add too much hassle or problems to any Merchant here at 101, but let’s wait to hear from them.

:goodpost: good post Gino... now I halfway agree with both sides too... I personally don't worry about the impact of wholesale prices being flashed around, but you make a good case for why some forum could impose a minor stipulation on ad content, and why some merchants might think it wasn't too much hassle..
 

ddarlak

Go Bills!
if a wholesaler sells to the public, at wholesale prices, we flip out.

i've been to wholesale sites that don't post the prices until you have been identified as a reseller. this is how it should be done, to offer some protection to it's resellers.

i went to the offending link, and no where does the ad say this price is restricted to resellers, so i can only assume they will sell to anyone.

just because 'others' are doing it fred, doesn't mean you have to.

i like your jab that i can't make an ethical call, why would that be, cuz your better than me?


get off your high horse.....

you just can't teach common sense..
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
i like your jab that i can't make an ethical call, why would that be, cuz your better than me?

Never said that ... implied that ... or intended that. But if you'd like to compare our contributions to the betterment of the craft I'm ready anytime you are.

The words of Teddy Roosevelt come to mind:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.[/FONT]

I mean this in the kindest way although you may not take it as I intend. You're a critic and a sniper Dave. You should consider becoming a contributor.
 

ProWraps

New Member
i dont agree with the vendors choice to advertise wholesale prices.

i dont agree with fred having to police and possibly compromise his values and morals to become a censor.

such is life. if there were perfect answers to everything, we wouldnt have forums like this to discuss our problems or our concerns.

there is no pleasure without pain.

like i said before, in this instance, the responsibility lies on the advertiser to do what is best for its customers and should be held accountable for its actions.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I halfway agree, but at the same time halfway disagree. However, I don’t disagree with the reasons, just the results.

Fred’s latest method of closing a deal is pretty much across the board what everyone has to do… you have to strike while the iron is hot and that customer is right there in your shop. Face to face… I can close a deal with almost anyone, but when they’re on the phone or interneting….. you don’t have the same advantages…. AND that’s what this is all about.

Why is it that so many of the biggest wholesalers give us catalogs with pricing in it that we know [if you’re in the industry] that we’ll receive a hefty discount ??
Why is it, that vendors don’t give price lists or their catalogs to the general public ??
Aren’t we all an extension of some sign supply houses and by giving us all discounts we’re going to find a good one to do business with and stay loyal ??
How does advertising our prices to JOE PUBLIC help anyone ??
Advertising their wares and capabilities is one thing, but prices for everyone to see…. not so good.

Well, we might as well just post our prices on our front window so people can start window shopping again, if vendors can run ads like that on the internet.

Their phone numbers are available and when JOE PUBLIC calls them and asks for pricing…. If the company is not reputable, they’ll probably do and say anything to close that sale, just like Fred spoke of earlier.


Most of the wholesale companies I know of have phone numbers coming in from many fields.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1234…. they know it’s from a sign shop, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1235…. they know it’s from a trade magazine, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1236…. they know it’s from the street, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
  • When a call comes in on 555-555-1237…. they know it’s from the internet, cause that’s the only place they used that number.
That’s how many wholesalers conduct business. I am not indicating that’s how anyone here does it, but I do know for a fact…. that’s how a lot of the big guys do it.

I know with our shop, we sell to the public and we wholesale, but I don’t give anyone off the street the prices I would give another sign shop. We also give 101-ers an even better discount then we give local shops. The big difference though is… we screen each and every call before we hand out prices. If you can’t prove you’re a sign shop and were trying to take an unfair advantage… we’ll drop ya like a hot potato. Won’t do business with thieves or crooks and someone posing as a sigh shop is just that in my book.

Therefore, why can’t all Merchant Members advertise anywhere they want on this site, but keep the prices hidden or only advertise full retail prices ??

Is that stopping anyone from advertising ??
Does that stop JOE PUBLIC from knowing what we pay ??
Would that help anyone who doesn’t want pricing show up out here??
Why would a Merchant not want to do it this way ??

Stricter rules and screening cannot add too much hassle or problems to any Merchant here at 101, but let’s wait to hear from them.


Sorry for those who had problems reading this. I have no idea where I hit the 'Times' button.
 
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