Screen Printing Problems? What do you think?

[Custom Signs]

I just ordered and received 26 Coro Signs that are 46" x 46" Single Sided with the imprint of a girls softball (Colors are Yellow Ball with Red Stitching and a school logo) from a reputable company online. Our intent was to have these screen printed and when we received them we would apply the girls name and number with Oracal 651 Vinyl using R-Tape Premask. When we applied the first name and started removing the premask the ink came off with the premask. After trying this a couple of times we decided to try to apply the vinyl wet. When we did this the ink would rub off with just soap and water. After trying to apply wet and failing we noticed that the ink on all of the signs was still just a little tacky and didn't seem to have cured fully? Is this normal and is this our fault?

We contacted the company that made the signs and their reply was that we used a foreign substance on their signs and this was our choice and we made a bad decision. Is this a true statement in your opinion? Really thought this would be no problem applying vinyl to a screen printed sign. Geezzz

 

[reQ]

I just ordered and received 26 Coro Signs that are 46" x 46" Single Sided with the imprint of a girls softball (Colors are Yellow Ball with Red Stitching and a school logo) from a reputable company online. Our intent was to have these screen printed and when we received them we would apply the girls name and number with Oracal 651 Vinyl using R-Tape Premask. When we applied the first name and started removing the premask the ink came off with the premask. After trying this a couple of times we decided to try to apply the vinyl wet. When we did this the ink would rub off with just soap and water. After trying to apply wet and failing we noticed that the ink on all of the signs was still just a little tacky and didn't seem to have cured fully? Is this normal and is this our fault?

We contacted the company that made the signs and their reply was that we used a foreign substance on their signs and this was our choice and we made a bad decision. Is this a true statement in your opinion? Really thought this would be no problem applying vinyl to a screen printed sign. Geezzz

I would ask FireSprint (they are merchant member here) they would give you all possible answers. As far as i know properly printed & cured coro signs should be water proof, since many election signs are done this way. Did you spray it with soapy water or different brew?

 

[Custom Signs]

I used just soap and water mix. But I really thought I could have applied them dry with no problem? But that wasn't the case.

 

[Behrmon]

We have a screen print division in house and on occasion create signs like this, never had an issue like this when the proper ink was used.

 

[Gino]

Never, as in ever, heard of this problem from screen printing. Someone handed you hogwash, as well as a lousy product. I don't believe these were silk screened at all.

No ink regardless of the base is gonna rub or or wash off once dried properly. They either used the wrong ink for Cor-X and it didn't bite in...... or don't know what they're doing, or both. No one will ever ship partially dried products, either.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Sounds like poor adhesion of a digital UV print, and not actually screened to me.

 

[player]

Wrong ink.

There is a special ink the "melts" into corro. It's reaaly bitey. Strongest smelling ink.

There are other inks that still bite.

Corro needs to be wiped down with 99% alcohol or xylene to remove the surface plasticizers before printing.

 

[FireSprint.com]

Both UV Screen and Digital ink can have the problem with app tape. All printed coro should be able to get wet though.

We have this issue from time to time with dark blue screen inks for some reason. All UV inks (Screen or Digital) have an issue printing on Coro (Polypropylene). (That's part of the reason why they like to use polypropylene for food packaging - nothing sticks to it!) It will hold up in the weather and to app fluid just fine, but vinyl or sometimes even app tape will pull it off the sign.

Even though this is a problem, we don't think of it as an acceptable one - especially on our screen side. There are things we can do, including using new coro, to keep this from happening on any large scale in our shop. I can't speak for whatever company it is you purchased from, but we would offer to reprint or give you a refund if we didn't have a better option for you.

Even digital prints should hold up, but if you're having them run digitally, might as well just run the variable data as a print and not mess with the vinyl.

P.S. We don't run 4x4 screen, only digitally. Largest screen we do is a 48x32" sign.

 

[Custom Signs]

4-Over.com Blew This One!

Well, I don't like to bash but this job was done by 4-over. And below is their reply back to me as for as redoing the signs or giving me credit back for them.

"Thank you for the images. I understand the issue on hand, however a foreign product was applied to the signs and appears the results you were going for were not achieved. That is a decision that was made on your behalf and unfortunately we will not be able to honor any reprints or refunds on these orders. If you choose to place a new order, please let us know and we will do our best to expedite it. Have a great day."

So, do not think about ordering signs from them such as signs for a golf tournament for sponsors and applying Oracal 651 Vinyl using R-Tape. Those two items are a foreign product to them! As a matter of fact, I may change brands of vinyl and premask because of their low quality and because 4-over has never heard of them. You gotta Love the way they ended the email. Have a great day. Really?!!! Oh well, I guess I have learned a $400 lesson on this one. Just saying...

 

[a77]

4Over? They were digitally printed - why would you think they were screen printed?
To save the job, you could laminate them with some cheap lam and then apply the graphics.
You might have had the adhesion problem with another printer if they uv printed it. Not sure 4Over is totally in the wrong here.

 

[B Snyder]

4over simply didn't cure the UV ink properly and the person you are dealing with probably doesn't know enough about the process to understand that.

This happened to me on an order I placed when Signs365 first started and they did the right thing and replaced the signs.

 

[d fleming]

If a printed coro can't pass the tape test it does not leave my shop. Period. Demand a refund and get them printed by an actual screen printer. That reply from 4 over sucks.

 

[sfr table hockey]

I had a thread here a couple years back about the same issue with the first set of coro signs I had gotten from 4over flatbed printed. They seemed to scratch easily and the 2nd order that showed up a bit later that week with full print on the coro were worse and I did end up laminating them to save the job. Lucky that order was only 20 16x20's. Lucky also that the first batch was only needed to last for a few months and the customer was fine with the bit of scratching that might happen.

The ones I laminated, if I would have tried to remove the laminate most of the print would have come off with it.

At that time the replies I got here were to do with guys thinking the coro was not being prepped proper.

In fairness I have since had more done by them that have bonded much better. If it happens again I would push the issue and not let them pass the buck. I even reported this to 4 over so it's not like they have never had it happen before.

Mine were from the Toronto Branch. Again they have been good with many other orders since but they are so automated that it seems that no one "human" ever sees the order when it is finished.

 

[Gino]

I have nothing against using Merchant Members here, as long as they are responsible and act in a responsible manner wnen their product fails. Unless there is some type in small print solely expressing their lack of quality or ability becomes your responsibility, I'd go after them. Foreign products such as you used does not sound foreign to me or anyone else in this industry. That is a silly and ridiculous excuse as a professional to send to you.

Send a Letter of Demand, get your money back and don't look back. If you don't get satisfaction, blast them wherever and wherever you get the chance.
You went to a so-called professional, I'd expect them to act accordingly. They professionally accepted your money, right ??

 

[Marlene]

so are they really screen printed or were they done on a flatbed? we sued to screen print coroplast and there was a special ink for coroplast. you could put other inks down but they wouldn't pass a tape test. the correct inks will. if they were really screen printed, they screwed up as a little tape should do no damage

 

[B Snyder]

4over does not screen print.

 

[petepaz]

Both UV Screen and Digital ink can have the problem with app tape. All printed coro should be able to get wet though.

We have this issue from time to time with dark blue screen inks for some reason. All UV inks (Screen or Digital) have an issue printing on Coro (Polypropylene). (That's part of the reason why they like to use polypropylene for food packaging - nothing sticks to it!) It will hold up in the weather and to app fluid just fine, but vinyl or sometimes even app tape will pull it off the sign.

Even though this is a problem, we don't think of it as an acceptable one - especially on our screen side. There are things we can do, including using new coro, to keep this from happening on any large scale in our shop. I can't speak for whatever company it is you purchased from, but we would offer to reprint or give you a refund if we didn't have a better option for you.

Even digital prints should hold up, but if you're having them run digitally, might as well just run the variable data as a print and not mess with the vinyl.

P.S. We don't run 4x4 screen, only digitally. Largest screen we do is a 48x32" sign.

+1 yeah what they said!

 

[Custom Signs]

4-over.com Continues to Deny

Below is an email I relied with:

There Was Not a foreign substance put on your signs! We tried applying Oracal 651 Vinyl using R-Tape Application Tape (which I'm sure you have heard of both of them?) on your 4-Over Signs in which the ink has still not completely cured. When we applied the vinyl and pulled the premask off the uncured ink came off of the 4-Over Sign. I appreciate the call from you to discuss the problem we had as your Customer Service Representative said you would. (Sarcasm - No One called as we were told they would.). But it seems you would rather make a irrational decision and lose a customer than do the right thing? I am not the type to complain or try to get something free that I do not deserve. I just want to receive a good product as I have from 4-Over until now. I really thought Customet Satisfaction would be something you stood for? But your quick and irrational decision tells me you could care less as long as people order and pay you for your product? If what I have described above is not what you stand for please feel free to call me at anytime to discuss the problems we had with Your product.

And their reply back:

[h=3]hampik@4over.com[/h]	10:40 AM (10 minutes ago)		​
to me

Hello Terry,


Thank you for the email. It is a foreign product as we do state or confirm, any other use for these signs other then the natural fact that they are to be printed and used as is. Having this tested myself, with simple scotch tape on printed coroplast and peel it off, it pulls off some of the ink and can only assume that heavy duty vinyl only has a stronger adhesive then scotch tape and will naturally peel off the ink if removed. Once again this was a decision made on your behalf to apply foreign materials to our printed product and unfortunately was damaged due to the decision to apply it or peel it off. As a courtesy, if you would like to replace this order, we would like to offer you discount on a new order based on the number of signs that were damaged when the foreign vinyl material was applied to the signs. Let us know how many were damaged and provide pictures of all of the damaged signs and accordingly we will work on the best discount we can extend.

And the Saga goes on... Thanks Gino and Others! I will call 4-over and talk to them about a refund. Keeping fingers crossed they will do the right thing.

 

[d fleming]

Just fire them. Have someone who knows what in the world they are doing and can print that size do it right and move on. They obviously couldn't care less about their rep or customer base.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Below is an email I relied with:

There Was Not a foreign substance put on your signs! We tried applying Oracal 651 Vinyl using R-Tape Application Tape (which I'm sure you have heard of both of them?) on your 4-Over Signs in which the ink has still not completely cured. When we applied the vinyl and pulled the premask off the uncured ink came off of the 4-Over Sign. I appreciate the call from you to discuss the problem we had as your Customer Service Representative said you would. (Sarcasm - No One called as we were told they would.). But it seems you would rather make a irrational decision and lose a customer than do the right thing? I am not the type to complain or try to get something free that I do not deserve. I just want to receive a good product as I have from 4-Over until now. I really thought Customet Satisfaction would be something you stood for? But your quick and irrational decision tells me you could care less as long as people order and pay you for your product? If what I have described above is not what you stand for please feel free to call me at anytime to discuss the problems we had with Your product.

And their reply back:

[h=3]hampik@4over.com[/h]	10:40 AM (10 minutes ago)		​
to me

Hello Terry,


Thank you for the email. It is a foreign product as we do state or confirm, any other use for these signs other then the natural fact that they are to be printed and used as is. Having this tested myself, with simple scotch tape on printed coroplast and peel it off, it pulls off some of the ink and can only assume that heavy duty vinyl only has a stronger adhesive then scotch tape and will naturally peel off the ink if removed. Once again this was a decision made on your behalf to apply foreign materials to our printed product and unfortunately was damaged due to the decision to apply it or peel it off. As a courtesy, if you would like to replace this order, we would like to offer you discount on a new order based on the number of signs that were damaged when the foreign vinyl material was applied to the signs. Let us know how many were damaged and provide pictures of all of the damaged signs and accordingly we will work on the best discount we can extend.

And the Saga goes on... Thanks Gino and Others! I will call 4-over and talk to them about a refund. Keeping fingers crossed they will do the right thing.

I've got coro signs from 4over in the past, i put a vinyl patch over them as well, no issues even when having to remove it a year later. Having said that, the signs did seem to be tacky when I got them and they STANK!

Good luck, we use 4over quite a bit for business cards and such and they've always fixed any mess ups for us.