Screw you 3M.

[Typestries]

Since we print for a lot of other shops, brokers, and installers we have always stocked 180c v3 and 8518 since it's the most requested and quite frankly the recognized leader in the industry. Thank 3m marketing for that.

Beginning monday we will also stock and push Oracal 3751 and 290 GF. We were one of the development sites for Oracal 3651 and other solvent medias before it was even called "orajet".


I know and trust Oracal and have been using it since the beginning way back when we had our Arizonas.

This discussion is quite timely for us as well, as we are now looking at three nissan projects gone to 3m directly via the dealer.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

one should not **** off the gator before they cross the river ... ya may need to get back

 

[AUTO-FX]

I'm sorta surprised there hasn't been a big fancy thread regarding this situation before, because it's been going on for quite some time. Come to think of it, I do remember a few smaller discussions about it. But the 3M guys are probably saying "gee what's everyone gotten so excited for?" because to date, no one has rallied their peers and made a big stink.
I agree with what Gino is saying, to some degree. Work behind the scenes will probably go further.

 

[JoshLoring]

Think about this...

Now we KNOW.. And it will be that much easier for all of us to put together our own dealership packages with commissions for them and CRUSH 3Ms plans.
Really.. We know our costs. I'm about to lowball every dealership and throw cash in the lease managers pocket with every wrap referred.

Money talks.

 

[amw]

Maybe some are hoping to get 3M to do a 180º, but I think most (at least me) are considering cutting 3M out of their offerings not to try and damage or change their business model, but to simply not feel like an idiot when you pick up the phone and order material from your competition. 3M was the leader in vehicle wrapping media about 6 years ago, but their competition has become so stiff that anyone would be hard pressed to unequivocally label 3M as the single top dog in the industry. So if you have 3/4 players that have a top level product, it is only common sense to use one of the companies that isn't directly competing for you business. It isnt really a matter of boycott or social change/justice, it's merely self preservation.

+1! Well said!

Marsha

 

[mnapuran]

I'm using about 2 rolls of ij35-10c a week, and swear by the stuff. Occasionally I will use IJ40-R and always cringe when its time to buy a roll of 180. I checked out the pricing on Oracal's 3751 today, and it's very competitive. Oracal is PROUD of that 290 laminate though.. and I love working with the 8518.. so not sure I would be willing to spend the $600 to try that one out. Our local Tubelite dealer is having an open house later this month, maybe I can get my hands on some then.

I admit, i'm a 3m fanboy but this really rubs me the wrong way. I would love to hear their justification for cutting their end users off at their knees like this.

Buy the Wrap-Kit... comes with the roll of 3751RA and the 290 laminate and you save about $160+ on the combo

 

[JoshLoring]

If I owned the forum.. I'd hold out until 3M offered me at least 500k to shut this tread down..

Just sayin.

 

[HulkSmash]

I think id be just a little satisfied if 3m graphics would come on and admit to everyone that they are indeed our competitor.

 

[oldgoatroper]

Sooooo..... does anyone know of an alternate manufacturer of VHB tapes?

 

[HulkSmash]

Proveer had a house brand that worked really well. Not sure if grimco is continuing selling it.

 

[Gino]

That wasn't a stab at the magazines or you Fred....hope you didn't take it that way.

I'm just saying they obviously spend big $ on advertising in trade magazines - I would be surprised if the magazines would openly bite the hand that feeds them.

Having a little article in the "news" section about them taking over the dealership / fleet graphics market is one thing....but them openly saying that they're screwing the independent sign companies by doing so is another thing.

Not bringing politics into this, but it's the same kinda deal. It will make your head spin so fast, when you hear their version of what's happening.

Probably be like watching/listening to the RNC with your left eye and ear while simultaneously the DNC with your right eye and ear.


Nope, I can't physically do that either.............. ​

 

[Fred Weiss]

That wasn't a stab at the magazines or you Fred....hope you didn't take it that way.

I'm just saying they obviously spend big $ on advertising in trade magazines - I would be surprised if the magazines would openly bite the hand that feeds them.

Having a little article in the "news" section about them taking over the dealership / fleet graphics market is one thing....but them openly saying that they're screwing the independent sign companies by doing so is another thing.

I didn't take it that way Pat.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the trade mags, I would say that they would demonstrate journalistic integrity before advertiser concerns. As far as this matter goes ... My personal opinion is that no one should be surprised at this and it's been discussed before here in some depth. In fact the last time it was brought up it was also started by Colorado Signs.

There are business decisions and there are emotional decisions. 3M made a business decision to pursue an opening in the wrap market. While the quality of what the client may receive is in question, there is no doubt that from a convenience and financing perspective it is a more attractive proposition for the client than taking delivery and then seeking out an independent wrap provider. That happened to impact substantially on Colorado Signs and his posts here are understandable. The many replies here are also understandable but let's be clear: Most are emotional and not based on what's necessarily best for your business.

One could make a very long list of similar business choices made over the years by manufacturers, distributors and supply vendors. When you see an end user opening their own in-house sign department, where do you suppose they got their equipment, software, supplies and training? In most cases, they got it from the same companies many of us buy our equipment and supplies from. It's not very different than what this thread addresses but when do you recall a thread about it here?

The reality, from a business perspective, is that we are seeing free markets and free enterprise at work here. Sure, it hurts when a big player uses their muscle to gain a big hunk of market share at your expense. But their move is no more disloyal than when your equipment supply distributor sells a system to your customers and you lose their business forever.

In addition, this doesn't rise to the level of harm and disrespect many of us experienced with the Avery debacle of 2004 - 2005 when failures were being documented with photos all over the place and Avery denied and stonewalled while they continued to sell bad product to unsuspecting customers resulting in financial damage and harm to individual reputations.

So while each of us may choose to cut back or eliminate purchasing of 3M products to protest their business decisions and practices, understand that the only likely benefit to you will be in making your feelings known to 3M.

 

[3M Graphics]

In response to your concerns we hope this helps clarify some of the misunderstandings and provides you an outline of how to participate in the program.

Automotive OEM’s have set stringent requirements to participate in their personalization program. 3M is able to meet their requirements with the following criteria:

• To print: 3M MCS™ Warranty and ISO 9001 Certification
• To install: 3M Endorsed Status (levels 2-4)

3M Original Wraps is directly involved in program coordination only.

If you meet these criteria and are interested in participating in automotive OEM programs, please contact Original Wraps at info@owcrm.com. We invite you to email us any specific questions or concerns so that we can respond fully.


Jason M. Amidon, Original Wraps

 

[slipperyfrog]

In response to your concerns we hope this helps clarify some of the misunderstandings and provides you an outline of how to participate in the program.

Automotive OEM’s have set stringent requirements to participate in their personalization program. 3M is able to meet their requirements with the following criteria:

• To print: 3M MCS™ Warranty and ISO 9001 Certification
• To install: 3M Endorsed Status (levels 2-4)

3M Original Wraps is directly involved in program coordination only.

If you meet these criteria and are interested in participating in automotive OEM programs, please contact Original Wraps at info@owcrm.com. We invite you to email us any specific questions or concerns so that we can respond fully.


Jason M. Amidon, Original Wraps

I'll give you a C- for effort on that one.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I'll give you a C- for effort on that one.

Even that is pretty generous

 

[mudmedia]

 

[401Graphics]

 

[BigfishDM]

Whats the best rate going for the Oracal combo packs?

 

[HulkSmash]

Oh I cant wait to finish wrapping these sprinters at holiday inn so i can come back and respond to that

 

[HulkSmash]

Did I mention they're not 3M?

 

[brush1]

It will be Oracal in the future for me. I switched to 3M.....had some issue with 3M.....contamination in the middle of the roll, to short laminate.
Never had problems with Oracal.
I don't like what 3M is doing now.