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Screw you 3M.

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ProColorGraphics

New Member
A petition sounds like a great idea. Small wrap and sign shops built this industry and now 3m wants to double dip? Sorry. No more 3m products for me. This will be viral quickly. Hitting up Facebook to report to my other sign shop buddies.

I already vowed this when they gave me the run around on some failing media. I've had way better luck with Arlon anyways. I am tempted to give Oracle a try now though. Haven't really used their stuff since I got my L25500.
 

petesign

New Member
I'm using about 2 rolls of ij35-10c a week, and swear by the stuff. Occasionally I will use IJ40-R and always cringe when its time to buy a roll of 180. I checked out the pricing on Oracal's 3751 today, and it's very competitive. Oracal is PROUD of that 290 laminate though.. and I love working with the 8518.. so not sure I would be willing to spend the $600 to try that one out. Our local Tubelite dealer is having an open house later this month, maybe I can get my hands on some then.

I admit, i'm a 3m fanboy but this really rubs me the wrong way. I would love to hear their justification for cutting their end users off at their knees like this.
 

Cale Frederick

New Member
oh god, what have i done.

The right thing!:clapping: I had kind of heard of this through one of our customers who bought a fleet of trucks and had the graphics done through the dealership. I didn't know that 3m was behind it though. I recognized they are using the old crosshatched 180c and figured they got it subbed out somewhere. That customer is totally unhappy with the graphics they got through them. It had liquid laminate and was stretched well beyond reason asthe stripes are thinner in the middle than at the outside edges. I think they may have been to short and were stretched before application to make it fit. It is peeling up everywhere and they did not even try to apply down into any grooves. Needless to say those spots are all busted and torn now. Weare actually in the process of quoting them on removal and new graphics, so hopefully this turns into a sale for us!
 

mudmedia

New Member
Now lets hope that if Avery and/or Oracal gets more business due to some of us switching that their pricing doesnt go up.
 

JoshLoring

New Member
Dang. This tread is blowing up. Let me plug my favorite brand real quick..

Why I love Oracal:
No tape primer!
Cost is better.
Clarity is untouchable.
In 6 years. Not one defective or blemished roll of media or lam.
The lamination is far superior to any on the market. (most 3M people use it anyhow)
Better customer service.
Real people answer your calls.
Amazing staff! Worked with them on many occasions.
They ONLY MAKE VINYL.

and... Wait for it.... Wait.. They aren't your competition.
 

JoshLoring

New Member
I've got an idea..
Let me scream so they hear me..

HEY 3M, DO YOU WANNA FIX THIS?

Shoot me The sources, codes and files for all of your commercial websites and let me distribute the code (with online designer) to everyone in the industry for use on their personal websites for free. Then.. Kill all your sites completely. Stop taking your clients work.
 

JoshLoring

New Member
Josh -- What's the big difference between 3951RA & 3751RA? We used to use 3751 for cab doors, etc. when we first got our printer, then used 3951RA for doing wraps and 3551RA for cabs, then switched to 3M IJ180Cv3/IJ40C-10.

How does it handle the indents on vans around the wheel wells and where windows would be?

3951 is the highest performance vinyl they have. Yes, it's more tacky.. Why? It stays where you put it. Takes a bit longer then 3751 to install, but stays on and conforms extremely well.

3751 is really really easy to apply. Low tack, better than 3M for clarity with much more shrink ability. Ultra bright white point so your graphics really pop.
Honestly, you can use 3751 on all your wraps. I use it on the deep sprinter channels with no problems. Camaros, dualies, HHRs. All 3751 good.

3551 is best for flat only in my experience. Trailers and box vans.. For the cost though.. 3751 and 290 can't be beat.

Tell your vendor you want the 3751RA combo pack.
 

petesign

New Member
probably a stupid question, but I havent ever seen or used the 290. Is it as thin and stretchy as the 8518? (ie. good for window perf as well?)
 

HulkSmash

New Member
290 is good lam. I like it a lot.

the 3M lam changes the color of Fleshtones and greys... and then 3M blames the user for not knowing how to build a profile. Well.. that's what my local 3M rep said... I also have an email from 3M telling me they have 0 knowledge of this issue..Even their "vinyl engineer" doesn't know...

2 days latter i get an email from my supplier that 3m sent them showing them how to avoid the "tinting" the lam gives. In any case 3M knew about it yet, when i submitted a case against it they claim they knew nothing about it, and then tell me they never received my only sample i had, and that it "got lost in the mail"

I love it.
 

ProWraps

New Member
3m has no traction in the EU market. its all oracal. if they keep up this route, they will lose all their traction here as well.

like i mentioned before, ill be switching to oracal. im over it. between all the crappy rolls and their blatent behavior to compete with the very people that they wholesale to i cant in good faith be their customer any more.

oracals high performance cast material has ALWAYS been superior. and so has their lam. we just stuck with 3m because it was what the customer not knowing any better asked for. from now on we will educate the customer why its not the case.
 
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