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Short rant...
- Thread starter dman0427
- Start date
briankb
Premium Subscriber
We recently needed a cartoon illustrated and we found someone really good. We gave him the specs for the job and he quote $500. For the project it was too much so I asked him to do it for $200 which he agreed. No haggling. He said he prices it higher because corporate customers were taking his work and using it outside the scope of the project. We agreed to only use it for this one 3x4" magnet promo and if we wanted to use it for something else we would pay him another $100. Seems fair to me. Like Gino, I always ask for discounts and I almost always get them. Just the other day I booked a hotel in New Orleans for 5 days for a conference and the last two days the price jumped from $149 to $297. So I called and the lady looked and said there was a conference. I told her none of the other hotels had that price jump on those two days (true) and she said hang on a minute. She comes back and found a group rate I could use and get those last two days for $139.
I think the reason it is irritating to negotiate is because the people starting the negotiation are idiots and are just trying to be slick and like the people they see on reality TV or PawnStars... They don't actually know what they are doing.
anotherdog
New Member
There is nothing wrong with haggling, providing you aren't insulting the other guy.
I hate it though when someone googles a price then expects me to match it.
We quote a fair price. I may have 10% of wriggle room, but no way I am chasing jobs to the bottom.
I am aware when talking to suppliers that everyone needs to make a living. I usually accept prices, compare them and if they are fair not haggle. If the job or product is good then I stick with that supplier...it's easy to find new customers, hard to find a good supplier.
I hate it though when someone googles a price then expects me to match it.
We quote a fair price. I may have 10% of wriggle room, but no way I am chasing jobs to the bottom.
I am aware when talking to suppliers that everyone needs to make a living. I usually accept prices, compare them and if they are fair not haggle. If the job or product is good then I stick with that supplier...it's easy to find new customers, hard to find a good supplier.
I always kind of figured that if someone can reduce the price they quoted to me by 25% then how bad were they ripping me off in the first place. Know your product and its value and stick to it. There are people out there that base there loyalty on nothing but price, let your competition have them.
Circleville Signs
New Member
It isn't honest negotiation that bothers me - I can deal with that. It is the way that some customers treat you with a total lack of respect - as if you aren't a professional.
Just yesterday I had a client make his FOURTH call to me over a two week period. Started out when he walked in the shop and wanted me to take what was on his VistaPrint business card, and turn it into vision vinyl for his rear window on his Hummer. This was some seriously intricate artwork. I asked him if he had the source files in vector format. He stared at me dumbly. "What - you can't just scan that and blow it up?"
No, moron - i can't. I can recreate it in vector format - probably 2-3 hours of art time. He flipped his lid.
So, over the last two weeks he has called multiple times asking if I'm ready to do the artwork for free. Each time I tell him no chance in hell.
Yesterday he calls and wants to know why it will take me 2-3 hours to vectorize it when he found a place online that can do it "in minutes" for $10. I told him he should try that out and see if he likes the results. If so, I'm happy to use that file to make his perf.
I truly hate people....
Just yesterday I had a client make his FOURTH call to me over a two week period. Started out when he walked in the shop and wanted me to take what was on his VistaPrint business card, and turn it into vision vinyl for his rear window on his Hummer. This was some seriously intricate artwork. I asked him if he had the source files in vector format. He stared at me dumbly. "What - you can't just scan that and blow it up?"
No, moron - i can't. I can recreate it in vector format - probably 2-3 hours of art time. He flipped his lid.
So, over the last two weeks he has called multiple times asking if I'm ready to do the artwork for free. Each time I tell him no chance in hell.
Yesterday he calls and wants to know why it will take me 2-3 hours to vectorize it when he found a place online that can do it "in minutes" for $10. I told him he should try that out and see if he likes the results. If so, I'm happy to use that file to make his perf.
I truly hate people....
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I've often said.... if it wasn't for people and customers, this would be a great line of work.
Gino,
Like you,will haggle about anything before I pay. I do it upfront and with no embarrassment. 9 out of 10 times it goes my way. This being said, I am a custom sign company. I work hard to design and manufacture a customer specific product. It's not just sitting on a self waiting for someone to come by and buy it.
I bid a decent job last month for monuments and signage.
The sign shop said to me and I quote "Your price is double what I got from your competitor". I stepped back and took a look at my bid. I told him that was not possible based on the quality of products that I use and "applesto apples". I want to see the bid to be sure we are pricing out the same items. He hesitated at first and I told him he has an obligation to his customer to bid the job out as requested. He in turn sent me the bid. It was not the same products and when I looked over what they were giving him I cleared it up and had him go back to them for a requote. He called me about two weeks later and ordered.
Like you,will haggle about anything before I pay. I do it upfront and with no embarrassment. 9 out of 10 times it goes my way. This being said, I am a custom sign company. I work hard to design and manufacture a customer specific product. It's not just sitting on a self waiting for someone to come by and buy it.
I bid a decent job last month for monuments and signage.
The sign shop said to me and I quote "Your price is double what I got from your competitor". I stepped back and took a look at my bid. I told him that was not possible based on the quality of products that I use and "applesto apples". I want to see the bid to be sure we are pricing out the same items. He hesitated at first and I told him he has an obligation to his customer to bid the job out as requested. He in turn sent me the bid. It was not the same products and when I looked over what they were giving him I cleared it up and had him go back to them for a requote. He called me about two weeks later and ordered.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Exactly SD&F. 
That's what I meant earlier about knowing your business and being confident.
If you know what it takes to do this one particular job, inside/out, you can haggle to the cows come home. When you know what it takes in materials, labor and any other incidentals are involved, you can move your numbers around to meet their price expectation. You just have to let them know, there is no way Joey down the street can do it for this level or work using these materials, so you will do it the same way.
At least, they give you a sceond chance to re-bid. That's all I ask and that's what bickering is all about..... to compare apples to apples.
If one wanted to build a really good car, you'd build a Cadillac and show off your better made parts and craftsmanship, while the guy shopping for price for a set of wheels will buy a Hugo hands down and be sorry later on. You get what you pay for, unless you educate the customer.
I had a guy at a Home Depot tell me to go to the other store and take a picture with my cell phone of an $1,100 piece of equipment I wanted to buy. He would then match it and knock an additional 10% off. I simply said, if I'm gonna waste the time to drive all the way over there and drive all the way back here, you're crazy. Either give me the price I'm asking plus your 10% offer..... or I'll just go to the other place and still save money. The trick is, I was ready to walk away and was showing signs of being irritated and he knew it, so he matched the price AND gave me the 10% in addition off. Remember, we were talking about the exact same piece of equipment, so there was no bullsh!tting going on as far as trying to get one over on me.
That's what I meant earlier about knowing your business and being confident.
If you know what it takes to do this one particular job, inside/out, you can haggle to the cows come home. When you know what it takes in materials, labor and any other incidentals are involved, you can move your numbers around to meet their price expectation
At least, they give you a sceond chance to re-bid. That's all I ask and that's what bickering is all about..... to compare apples to apples.
If one wanted to build a really good car, you'd build a Cadillac and show off your better made parts and craftsmanship, while the guy shopping for price for a set of wheels will buy a Hugo hands down and be sorry later on. You get what you pay for, unless you educate the customer.
I had a guy at a Home Depot tell me to go to the other store and take a picture with my cell phone of an $1,100 piece of equipment I wanted to buy. He would then match it and knock an additional 10% off. I simply said, if I'm gonna waste the time to drive all the way over there and drive all the way back here, you're crazy. Either give me the price I'm asking plus your 10% offer..... or I'll just go to the other place and still save money. The trick is, I was ready to walk away and was showing signs of being irritated and he knew it, so he matched the price AND gave me the 10% in addition off. Remember, we were talking about the exact same piece of equipment, so there was no bullsh!tting going on as far as trying to get one over on me.
Jillbeans
New Member
I see haggling as a huge waste of time. I'm not gonna drop my price, like I said earlier, I try to really do a good job with my quote etc etc.
I am not out to screw someone up the butt without lube.
I know you have to make calls to get results and all but someone trying to haggle me down just p!sses me off. I think some people build some haggle room into their quotes but I don't.
Everything I do is completely custom.
I am not out to screw someone up the butt without lube.
I know you have to make calls to get results and all but someone trying to haggle me down just p!sses me off. I think some people build some haggle room into their quotes but I don't.
Everything I do is completely custom.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I understand and fully support your way of doing business, Jill. That's also what we do most of the time. Still, I'm talking about a different approach than what I think you are figuring into the equation.
I'm talking about the many many times we all quote out a job, doing it the way we would do it for ourselves or our best customer.... the best of materials, the finest details and proper composition all being priced at a very fair market price.
However, Joey down the street quotes the guy about 1/3 less. He comes back to you and says why can he and you can't. Now comes the educational part of being a salesperson which I referred to as bickering or haggling. It's not always done in a negative manner. I proceed to tell the customer, that after 40 years or however long one's been at it, you know Joey can't do it for what you're quoted. Simple as that. Joey must be using PVC while I'm quoting aluminum composite and I'm quoting using high performance vinyl and I'm finishing off the edges. Joey's not doing that. Therefore, you have a sign, if I used those substrates and lower end vinyls, I too, could produce it for less.
Knowing this, you must decide if you want a higher end sign.... or a much lesser in value sign. There's no other way Joey can produce this sign for that price. Sure we could be a few dollars off if we are comparing apples to apples, but not a 1/3. No sir, I know my business and I know it can't be done for that lower price without cutting back drastically on supplies.
Many times, a potential customer just takes the cheaper price, not knowing he's being bamboozled. That's why, if they come back and give you a second chance, you should win the bid for having superior products.... or you just drop your costs of materials by substituting to what he wants.
This also happens when a customer has already been to the cheap shop first and when he gets your price, it helps to be able to say these things without missing a beat. This is where it's called up-selling your wares. It's a part of business and the American way. If you've gotten through life without doing it, good for you.
As for wasting time, it takes a few minutes to haggle and reach a decision.
In fact, my wife never did it..... until she met me and was amazed at how easily it works. I'd never buy insurance, a vehicle, a home, an air conditioning unit or anything without doing this first. I draw the line on one area..... I don't haggle at all when it comes to food I will be ingesting.
I'm talking about the many many times we all quote out a job, doing it the way we would do it for ourselves or our best customer.... the best of materials, the finest details and proper composition all being priced at a very fair market price.
However, Joey down the street quotes the guy about 1/3 less. He comes back to you and says why can he and you can't. Now comes the educational part of being a salesperson which I referred to as bickering or haggling. It's not always done in a negative manner. I proceed to tell the customer, that after 40 years or however long one's been at it, you know Joey can't do it for what you're quoted. Simple as that. Joey must be using PVC while I'm quoting aluminum composite and I'm quoting using high performance vinyl and I'm finishing off the edges. Joey's not doing that. Therefore, you have a sign, if I used those substrates and lower end vinyls, I too, could produce it for less.
Knowing this, you must decide if you want a higher end sign.... or a much lesser in value sign. There's no other way Joey can produce this sign for that price. Sure we could be a few dollars off if we are comparing apples to apples, but not a 1/3. No sir, I know my business and I know it can't be done for that lower price without cutting back drastically on supplies.
Many times, a potential customer just takes the cheaper price, not knowing he's being bamboozled. That's why, if they come back and give you a second chance, you should win the bid for having superior products.... or you just drop your costs of materials by substituting to what he wants.
This also happens when a customer has already been to the cheap shop first and when he gets your price, it helps to be able to say these things without missing a beat. This is where it's called up-selling your wares. It's a part of business and the American way. If you've gotten through life without doing it, good for you.
As for wasting time, it takes a few minutes to haggle and reach a decision.
In fact, my wife never did it..... until she met me and was amazed at how easily it works. I'd never buy insurance, a vehicle, a home, an air conditioning unit or anything without doing this first. I draw the line on one area..... I don't haggle at all when it comes to food I will be ingesting.
Techman
New Member
There is nothing wrong with haggling. We see it every day.
However, if we set ourselves apart as the professional who knows what we are doing, And we have a business plan that profiles the client so we can find what it takes to meet his needs and ease his pain... We will be much more successful when we have a script that will PREFRAME the client into the course we want them to follow.
that script will preempt their asking for a ridiculous discount.
These types of posts are wake up calls for all of us. They tell us our bizz models are weak and our talking points are not up to speed. We sound like victims instead of acting like victors.
About 22 years ago I went to a seminar and whined about some problem. The facilitator said to look in the mirror for the answer. I felt he was the most arrogant butt head ever. However, he was right. The answer was to get out and get educated.
However, if we set ourselves apart as the professional who knows what we are doing, And we have a business plan that profiles the client so we can find what it takes to meet his needs and ease his pain... We will be much more successful when we have a script that will PREFRAME the client into the course we want them to follow.
that script will preempt their asking for a ridiculous discount.
These types of posts are wake up calls for all of us. They tell us our bizz models are weak and our talking points are not up to speed. We sound like victims instead of acting like victors.
About 22 years ago I went to a seminar and whined about some problem. The facilitator said to look in the mirror for the answer. I felt he was the most arrogant butt head ever. However, he was right. The answer was to get out and get educated.
OldPaint
New Member
i had a guy one time was having me make 2' x 5' banners for him. he would buy 5 at a time and was a pain as for trying to get them for less then i was charging him. i had finally had his constant trying to beat me down to lower prices. one day i told him this:
OK, YOU WIN, iam gona do your signs for FREE from now on!!! BUT this will happen 1st, and see how you will like this.
1ST OFF, i will close the shop and move in with you.
2ND you will need to feed me, cloth me, by me new shoes.
3RD i will get to sleep with your wife!!!!!
NEVER HADA PROBLEM WITH HIM .........from that day on))))))
this was another deal guy tryed to beat me down on a car i was selling.
i wanted $600 for the car. was well worth that and i coulda asked for $800. this guy pulls up in a bright red porche 911, well detailed and not near stock. looks at the car, asked to take it for a ride, i let him. he comes back and says you want $600? yea.......well would you take $500? sure i will, after i take off the 4 new tires or would you rather me take out the ALPINE RADIO with the 6 CD changer in the truck? i got $600 in my hand)))))))))))))))
OK, YOU WIN, iam gona do your signs for FREE from now on!!! BUT this will happen 1st, and see how you will like this.
1ST OFF, i will close the shop and move in with you.
2ND you will need to feed me, cloth me, by me new shoes.
3RD i will get to sleep with your wife!!!!!
NEVER HADA PROBLEM WITH HIM .........from that day on))))))
this was another deal guy tryed to beat me down on a car i was selling.
i wanted $600 for the car. was well worth that and i coulda asked for $800. this guy pulls up in a bright red porche 911, well detailed and not near stock. looks at the car, asked to take it for a ride, i let him. he comes back and says you want $600? yea.......well would you take $500? sure i will, after i take off the 4 new tires or would you rather me take out the ALPINE RADIO with the 6 CD changer in the truck? i got $600 in my hand)))))))))))))))
John Butto
New Member
