Should you fire this employee?

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Humphf.

Sure is a tough one there, Pat. Not a situation I'd wanna be in, but in all fairness, I can't believe the owner had NO idea any of this was going on over such a long period of time. In our shop, we all talk about all kinds of things and we bounce ideas, stories and problems off of each other all the time. Some people think that's not good to be so buddy/buddy, but that's me. I like people and want to help in any way I can... if it's a worthy cause.

With all of the problems and insight this guy/owner has now, so long after so much has happened, I would probably try to help this guy. Sure, he might've done some pretty nasty things, but the way he was described here, he was embarrassed or had too much pride to ask for help and wanted to fix it on his own. Yeah, he went about it wrong, but he sounds decent and I would want to help him get back on track.

I would not fire him, but I would put him on probation and start a plan with him to get his life back in order. Try council with him and see that those kids are cared for properly. The money he made is gone and no use in discussing. They all need to look to the future for a successful outcome here.

I have to agree.

I would definately take away his key, or have the locks changed at his expense. Also, offer to do the side work for him, only not on the side. Let him pay you a "trade discount" so that he can make money on the jobs, much like a salesperson. Maybe the extra income coming to you will help you out, and he should be able to make a few bucks off of the jobs he sold, and he will get paid a hourly rate for doing them during normal business hours.

Put it all in writing and have him sign it. If he wont agree to the terms, then fire him.

 

[Liquid GraphX]

Well thats gonna be tough but I think you have to ask yourself if you think you've suffered enough? What would it look like to your other employees if you didn't let him go? Some of them had to know what this guy was doing? Better have a come to Jesus meeting with all your staff.....

 

[jdb]

I think that staying and getting help should be up to the person who did the wrong. Does he want to really make things right? Does he want to repay all he stole? Does he really want to apologize to the customers he stole from you and make sure you get them back? I'm sure there are some other things He would need to make right.

If He were willing to make EVERYTHING right, then I would help him. This would be hard for him but would show what He's made of. Maybe write up a contract for him to stick to or something of that nature, and keep the pressure on him.

If He doesn't want to make EVERYTHING right, then that is his choice as well. He's down the road!

 

[onesource]

I would wish him luck and hope he finds a way to a better path in life.
Bottom line he's a thief and thieves lie. Most thieves are very likable because they are good manipulators, not good for business.

You need to be able to fire your brother

 

[Bly]

Ok hyperthically if it was me. This lying POS I trusted all those years burned me and I only found out about it when the pawn shop told me. THEN he got all heartbroken and sorry..
The problems of anyone I employ or do business with are not my problems.
They may be sad stories and deserve my sympathy but business is business.
He'd be lucky to get out without a broken nose.

 

[SKADSIGNS]

Im with Gino. The easy thing to do his send him down the road. He did some bad stuff but it was not for greed it was survival for him and his kids. How far would any of you go to protect your kids? If you are sure about his story then try to help him out. If you are not sure look into it a little further to make sure he does not have the drug habit and his wife left him.

Do you like your house? If he has a mac daddy pad keep him on board, have him sign his pad over to you. Rent your place to him or rent the big house back to him. Garnish his check. Keep an eye on him.

 

[Bly]

Keep an eye on him.

Right.
Keep an eye on him.
Along with my own kids, wife, ex wife, mortgage, business etc etc etc.
Maybe if I owed him big, but otherwise no way. He backstabbed me already.

Hey I have a fantastic opportunity for some of you people!!
You have a $50 million inheritance waiting for collection... just send me your details and a few large to get the ball rolling.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

This guy needs to completely bottom out before he can dust himself off and start on the upswing. Firing him will probably help him in the long run.

At what point is "Bottom Out"? How do you measure that? The bottom is a different level for different individuals in different situations. When an individual does hit that bottom, can they really pick themselves up and dust off, or is it actually someone that reaches out to help them do so? If a thief steals a dollar from a rich man, the rich man will hate the thief. If that thief steals a dime from a poor man, the poor man may kill the thief. Give a poor hungry man a fish, he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime. The true measurement of a mans character is measured in what a man does in difficult times as well as what a man does when his brother is faced with difficulty. At various times, in various situations, we all have various degrees of strength and weakness depending on all relative influences. Consider this to yourself for a moment......At what point would it be that you reach the bottom? What event or act would facilitate you picking yourself up, dusting yourself off and starting over in a positive fashion? We as human beings, possess the compassion, as well as the wrath to effect other human lives and destinies in a positive or negative manner. In which manner would you choose to be effected? In which manner would you choose to effect another?

 

[GypsyGraphics]

If he had come to you because his conscience would not let him continue, explained how desperate he had become, told you what he'd done and was remorseful. I'd say let him stay and redeem himself.

If he's come clean with everything once caught, I mean 100% clean, it would be a tough call. But he didn't do either and there may still be more you haven't uncovered yet.

I don't think he's earned your forgiveness or learned his lesson. He hasn't been honest yet, let him go.

 

[pointjockey]

Since he left the keys on the desk its possible that you don't see him on Monday.

Sounds like you guys were friends, and you want to help him. Even as a friend, I would have to let the guy go. That does not mean that you cant still be available as a friend.

 

[grafixemporium]

Sounds to me like he was sobbing and apologetic because he got caught. Typical of most criminals. He wasn't sobbing for all those months when he was stealing tools from the shop and stealing jobs out from under you... or whoever this story is about. I'd fire him on the spot and tell him he's lucky you're not pressing charges.

Sure, it sucks for him and I'm sure it would be easy to feel bad for the guy... but he is stealing from you and your family. That won't fly in my world.

And all this talk about "ohhh but he's your friend". Friends don't steal from other friends. He's not your friend.

Since I opened my business, I have developed a new philosophy on people. It pretty much boils down to the idea that there are givers and there are takers. I'm getting damn tired of the greedy, selfish takers.

 

[gnatt66]

the generosity is if you decide not to get him thrown in jail.

he's all caught up in his disease/depression and will continue to 'use' whatever means he can to keep going as is if allowed. He needs to be fired and lose that house ( its just a building, after all ) and learn that behavior like that wont be overlooked/ basicially told it was OK.

if he still wants help from you as a friend and not an employer (and he continues to repay the STOLEN $$ ) then thats up to them.

 

[bob]

The employee made his own decision concerning his employment future when he decided to steal equipment and customers.

Forgiveness doesn't equal lack of responsibility and lack of consequences. Forgiveness also does not mandate automatic restoration to position.

Just a few:

...massive exposition of genuine biblical gibberish mercifully deleted...

Regardless of your voluminous and nonsensical justifications for your position, you are correct.

Forgiving the transgression means not having the miscreant hauled off in chains. It does not mean that you give the rascal employment.

There's lots of honest people looking for work, there's no need of wasting your time trying to salvage someone who has demonstrated defects.

 

[Poconopete]

[/COLOR]
There's lots of honest people looking for work, there's no need of wasting your time trying to salvage someone who has demonstrated defects.

We all have defects including yourself.

 

[astro8]

I've been mulling this saga over in my mind and I've come to the conclusion that the best he can expect from you is not being charged.
The best you can expect from him is to dissappear out of your life.
You're the victim here, not him.

 

[PC Signs]

Three years ago we got an order to put up a real estate sign on an unbelievable piece of property on the river, the kind of parcels that NEVER go on the market. I sent him out to install the sign, he came back two hours later with the sign still in the truck.

Did he get paid for "his" 2 hours of time? Sounds like he may have been stealing from you long before things got bad. The unfortunate situation he found himself in was a great opportunity for him to show his children how they are the only thing that matters. He could have sold everything and started over, thus teaching the kids that no matter how hard life gets you hold your head up and persevere, even if you have no material possesions you still have family, they are what truly matters.
Instead he stole so he could keep his "things", risking jail time and the kids going to social services, fire him.

 

[bob]

We all have defects including yourself.

Perhaps, but the defects to which you refer exist on a broad spectrum ranging from nose picking to mother stabbing and father raping. Some defects are more telling than others.

I've always wondered why it is that when someone attempts to kill themselves and botches the attempt all the forces of medical science are brought to bear in an effort to save the would-be suicide. Why? Let it suck the pipe, it's easier to make a new one and this one has obvious flaws. Life may be unique in some Aristotelian sense but it is not in the least bit scarce. There's plenty of people.

 

[Eddie Gallivant]

Get rid of him, He knew what he was doing. Your lucky thats all he got. Trust is never somthing that should be broken. His problem is not your problem. Its Business Not Personal. You sound like a great person and he only took advantage of your kindness.
I feel bad for the kids. Hes lucky that your his boss.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

He should just fire him already. if he doesn't feel comfortable, PM me his number and I'll do the deed.

 

[astro8]

I've always wondered why it is that when someone attempts to kill themselves and botches the attempt all the forces of medical science are brought to bear in an effort to save the would-be suicide. Why? Let it suck the pipe, it's easier to make a new one and this one has obvious flaws. Life may be unique in some Aristotelian sense but it is not in the least bit scarce. There's plenty of people.

You may be able to adhere to this philosophy until 'it' is one of your own. We may then see a 'bob' covered in tears and snot, looking up at the heavens with a miraculous new found belief in God, willing to hand over and go without all manner of bodyparts and fluids in an attempt to save 'it', like anyone would.
I hope you never have to go through it to test that statement you just blurted. For God's sake man, get a grip, this is some of the most insect/Vulcan-like thinking I've encountered... you're starting to sound silly.