Signs 101 Business Model

[BlueRidgeFabrication]

I would prefer the forum to remain as it is. I think that it works really well. Obviously there are questions that are asked over and over again, etc. but if it weren't an open forum--I would have never joined.

Jessica

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

Funny you should mention something Gino I have always thought.

I think you want to maintain a certain part of the trade, there is a balancing act that will be paid for one way or another.

I see way too many newbs coming off the street who have never done a job in their life and learning "how to" here, and way too many who aren't even in the industry but people looking to do their own signs.

In some ways these forums can diminish your trade by turning it into "You too can change out your Water Heater!".

Cutting this nub traffic off at the same time will piss off the merchants because they are looking for the traffic and sales. Increase nub traffic and you make them happy, but kill what little trade aspect there is and piss off the real sign makers.

Change permission and member groups

My suggestion is make certain part paid, especially my suggested "No Bars Hold Forum" that way people like Colin can pay to speak his opinion on why god is dead

Change permission and member groups, Limit view pics by registered members only.

Get guest view 1st post only mod in certain forums to encourage participation.

Consolidate a lot of the forums, there is way too many, it's starting to look like Signforums. By doing this it will be easier to set permissions. Keep your moderator busy by kicking threads that appear to become popular into paid a or group viewing areas.

To name a few...

In reality, why change anything? If it ain't broke, why fix it?

 

[D3G]

Signs 101 Changes

Fred,

My wife and I have been in business for 2 years now and have not been active or maybe I should say participating members on your site. I cruise it all the time to learn how to do better what we love to do (signs). Now I have not read every response in detail but just by skimming a handful of responses it looks like the folks that are in your higher levels (PHD and such) are for the pay way and the other half is for the present way.

Signs 101 originally appeared to be a site where new sign makers could go to learn about the opportunities in the sign industry and possibly learn from other's mistakes (hence the 101 tag). I've found it is much more than that and that's great. However, the higher level folks have a tendancy to be sarcastic and some times down right rude to folks who post for a first time. I guess some of your participants here get tired of the preschoolers asking dumb questions. The other night I read a thread where someone was asking what he would be worth in the market place and one of your members jumped all over him. I guess the guy didn't explain himself well enough or something.

If this is a site developed to assist ALL signmakers in developing their business and to make the sign world a better place then you should keep it the way it is. If you are going in a different direction and you want to develop into a higher quality group (the experienced group) then change it. Drop the '101' tag and maybe call yourselves the 'SignsPHD'. I'm sure someone else will create a new site that will take the place of what makes this site so busy. (the higher level posters remind me of the old crusty country club members who yell at the staff and are never happy).

If you start charging I'm for one gone. And that may not mean much to you but it probably would mean a lot to Merrit, Killer Graphics and the like.

If all you are worried about is non sign makers accessing the site then set up some sort of sign up through Fellers, GSG, Grimco or maybe your existing vendors. If anyone is worried about their competition getting a leg up on their pricing then don't share it.

Bottom line; this is a great website and I've learned loads from the other members here. If I have to pay for it keep it. I'll figure it out myself with a few snafus along the way.

D3G

 

[ProWraps™]

^^^ ditto couldnt have said it better. If I was to pay $50-$100 to be a member, and had to pay to put up with the likes of Flame, Old Paint, and some of the others, I would quickly let everybody I know that it was the worst money ever spent, and would recommend that nobody else made the same mistake I did.

There is too much shit talking by the older people on this site, and even as a free site, I have left it for long peroids of time because Im sick of it.

Not to mention coming from someone that has ran a forum for over 10 years, if you charge, you can kiss your user base goodbye to the guy that comes along and opens another forum for free. And yes, it will happen VERY FAST.

Just my suggestions.

 

[Lunatic Taskbar]

Personally I would prefer things to remain as is. Even better to weed the noob wanna be's out. But we all gotta do what we gotta do. Will be interesting to see how it progresses. it would be IMO seriously watered down if there isnt the input from a vast resource.

 

[schurms]

Bottom line , Fred has to make money or break even. This site is a Gods Send to the sign industry. If it become pay I will pay , if its free great.

 

[Gino]

D3G and the likes…. your opinions probably sound good to you, but where do you think all of the help comes from for the people looking for answers ??

You shouldn’t judge someone just because you formed an image in your head as to how these old crusty country club members look or sound to you. Idle threats of leaving because you can’t get your way and scaring Merchant Members isn’t what this thing is all about. It’s about a serious problem that we must face as a whole and try to fix it. Jumping ship immediately is just what this place doesn’t need. There was nothing around like this in the slightest when I came up through the ranks. Let’s try to make this stick. It’s a great place, unless you’re spineless.

You are correct about your statement of… Signs 101 originally appeared to be a site where new sign makers could go to learn about the opportunities in the sign industry and possibly learn from other's mistakes (hence the 101 tag). I've found it is much more than that and that's great. But that’s what we’re trying to keep it… for sign people only. Not the whole neighborhood. Maybe instead of skimming and getting half the facts wrong. Read the entire thread and get all your facts correct. Everybody is always trying to take a short cut and that’s what a lot of this is all about…. reading, listening, staying focused and THEN forming conclusions.

Last, why all the talk of a different direction…. We’re only trying to figure out a way to keep yours and everybody else’s customers from finding out your business…. not trying to cramp your business, just help it as a whole. Please…. look at the whole picture here and not all of your own individual scenarios.

 

[ProWraps™]

trust me he is more than breaking even... it only costs $99/month to colo a server.... you would have a hard time making me believe that he isnt making that with the 30-40 merchant members. as far as turning a profit, well thats another story. any forum admin will tell you that its not happening.. except maybe a very few.

as far as keeping things private, im all for it. that is something i wondered about with all the "quotes" going on here. but again, im here to learn, not to get jumped on by the bitter old people. if there was a MUCH better system of policing the hatred, it would be worth the money possibly. my forum is full of adolescent kids, and they are much kinder, and more civil and mature to each other than many on this site. but then again, we do a HELL OF A LOT more to keep it that way.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I think you’re reacting a little too hasty, Fred. Why not brainstorm this thing and take in many ideas in the next couple of days or week or two and then form some sort of poll ?? Unless the poll you have posted is the only two possibilities. I would like to explore the possibilities of these problems and see if there are any other alternatives that won’t interfere with your or Bigdawg’s running things here or adding more headaches to your day.

Basically, I’m for helping most people… especially if they ask for help from within our trade. This place is about the best place I’ve found in years to do that. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize how many people can be ‘lurking’ around and taking this information to hurt our industry. If someone comes here asking for help and they get 25 or 35 posts explaining everything down to how many nails or where to get the vinyl…. it’s only a matter of time until we’re giving away the whole deal. And more will follow. If anyone doesn’t see this as something serious, then you’re not dealing with a full deck. If anyone thinks you can forget about this and it will go away, then you’re truly not a business person. Having a livelihood is not something to take lightly. It’s not the same as going to the office and doing your job and going home at the end of the day. You’re responsible for you and your job alone. You fail… you get fired. It’s you’re fault. Having your own business is all about having the upper hand and making money. Sure, your family depends on you, but so do your employees, vendors and customers. You fail now and you’re letting down quite a few people and in some cases…. many families. That’s what I have to deal with when potential customers have access to this site. I could care less about the newbies…. they’re easy to handle, but the people that are here…. purposely to hurt or take away from us… are the ones I don’t like… AT ALL. There should be a way to control this better or at least make us feel safer. Afterall, it is called signs101… not signshop 101.

It’s a double edged sword….. if you shut down the search engines and make it harder for people to enter the ranks… less traffic, less new people, less attraction, less interest. BAD !!

If you let the flood gates open….. less information will pour into this place. Everyone so far has said… change your name, your avatar and give less informative information. This will put a damper on the quality of knowledge and all will suffer including the site. Why would anyone want to give away trade information to their customers ??

I don’t have an answer, but I think we really need to look into this much closer…………
​

I guess that's partially my point Gino. There is no simple cut and dried answer. No answer that meets the need to at least not lose money running this site while keeping everybody happy. So forgive me for sounding off.

I have thought about the way this has gone and what there might be in the way of solutions (that is within my ability to execute) for the last five years here. There are many members here who contribute in many ways to Signs 101 but there is an overwhelming number who contribute little or nothing and waste the time of this particular person along with the time of many others. Some of them are involved in this exchange.

More than half the suggestions made today regarding this matter are not doable. I alluded to that earlier. Examples pointed to may have a different agenda and/or a different business model. The facts are that I supported this site for nearly three years while it grew. Since introducing member subscriptions and banner advertising the site pays its bills and returns perhaps $1 an hour profit on the many hours I spend here holding things together.

So at times I get fairly fed up with guys like Darlak who increase the time I spend monitoring the boards with inane posts designed to amuse himself. I get very tired of people jumping on newbies and turning the blame for some of them on Signs 101. Newbies are a fact of life. Part of what Signs 101 does is to create a path to bring the better ones into the fold of professionalism ... if for no other reason than it's just the right thing to do and it is one less lowballer we have to deal with collectively. The rest can come and go as they please. There's nothing you or I can do about it other than at least get to know what and whom we're dealing with.

Trade secrets? For the most part there isn't much of that shared here that couldn't be found in lots of other places. You give and you get, otherwise you wouldn't be here. So a newbie's life gets made a little easier. Show me a case where a newbie caused you any loss.

What has transpired here today is a clash of uninformed opinions as to what is both possible and practical with the post of a few who are familiar enough with the resources at hand to put forth what the limited solutions are. Basically it comes down to keep it like it is with an occasional minor change or change the whole business model to member supported which, IMO, is risky at best and ill advised. There are no easy buttons to push to have this guy see just this and that guy see just that and have lots of activity and new members but to put ten people to work screening out the riff-raff. Most settings here are global and only different user groups can have their settings modified. User groups can be either User CP selectable (like the NHB forums) or they can be joinable. Joinable groups require a leader who is willing and able to rule on requests in a reasonable time and he or she (by my standards) must have an ethical and reasonable set of impartial rules to apply to making each decision.

Getting complicated? I can go on but it only gets more complicated and it's reaching a point where my pay grade here doesn't justify the time or the abuse. So just take my word for it as coming from a fairly insightful person who has looked at the resources and looked down the road. It's one way or the other and what we have is going to include lots of newbies being lazy, ill prepared and definitely a waste of time along with those worth bringing along. That's just the nature of the beast even with whatever reasonable controls one chooses to implement. But if what you want is a forum limited to professionals, then paid membership is, to me, the obvious choice.

The limitation of available knowledge, resources and funds does not permit much of a middle ground.

 

[ProWraps™]

correct on every level. anyone and everyone that runs a successful forum (aka, many members, not much money) will agree. mine makes enough to pay the server bill. thats it. no more no less. this is done with a google adwords banner. forums suck period. i will never do it again. great for the user, terrible for the admin. time v. money isnt even an option, its a negative.

i host my clients on my server. thats one of the only ways i can justify my time of having the server. the forum pays the colo cost, the hosting clients pay the rest that amounts to not much.

but as you mentioned, there is NO magic solution to all the issues you presented. and you sound like i was 5 years ago when i realized this about my forum. i was an official babysitter for 15,000 idiots that got nothing for my time. and to this day because its my baby, i still retain that position.

fred, you need more mods. i tryed to do what you are doing. i tryed to do it all. it just doesnt work. now my forum is completely driven by my mods. and if it wasnt, i would have quit LONG ago. and my mods dont have the highest post count. they have the most courtesy and common sense. post counts=arrogance and rarely make good mods.

 

[GregT]

I would be will to pay to read.

How about the more money you "pay" the more "chicklets" you get

 

[DARLAK]

So at times I get fairly fed up with guys like Darlak who increase the time I spend monitoring the boards with inane posts designed to amuse himself

really fred....


i guess it's time for signs 201 or signs 102.....

did i increase your time on here by creating NHB or did you create it on a whim to satisfy my rant - only to find that's what the masses prefered??

to mention me as a waste of your time is quite pitiful.

you should have quitely erased me when i dropped the f-bomb

this is obviously getting too big for you....


www. signs201 .com

vbulletin on the way.....


INANE.... WOW!

 

[DARLAK]

official babysitter for 15,000 idiots

you guys kill me, don't you get it, if an idiot ramble long enough people ignore him, if their not ignoring him - just maybe he's not an idiot....

maybe it's just your judgement.....

 

[high impact]

you guys kill me, don't you get it, if an idiot ramble long enough people ignore him, if their not ignoring him - just maybe he's not an idiot....

maybe it's just your judgement.....

Or maybe he is an entertaining idiot! LOL

 

[DARLAK]

nice glasses...

Or maybe he is an entertaining idiot! LOL

jester's are needed in any society, just as boring folk....

 

[Replicator]

I'm all for it . . . 100%

 

[THATgirl]

I would say if you feel the way you do Fred you should sell signs 101 while it is ahead. You seem to have a great thing going with lots of merchants and if it is getting to you, it might be time to sell.

Seems like this is what happened to letterville. It was great for awhile, then the moderator seemed to get tired of it all and wanted to become rich and it didn't happen. He could have sold it years ago, but I doubt if he could give it away today. When people pay it turns into a clique. Soon the 'clique' becomes only 5 people posting and it is boring and no longer even worth going to.

I enjoy darlak and a lot of the others who post. I find a little humor adds to the board. However some who post should just copy and paste as they say the same old $hit over and over and it would save them some typing.

 

[high impact]

nice glasses...



jester's are needed in any society, just as boring folk....

I agree...thanks for the laugh! hahaha

 

[DARLAK]

I agree...thanks for the laugh! hahaha

enjoy it...

the time has come, LOL is no longer - only non-inane pay-per-view-talk is on the way....

love, darlak

 

[THATgirl]

lol well I think you are funny darlak

Love, Cheryl