Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Discussion So, Why Is It.....................................

Discussion in 'Member Shout Out' started by Gino, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. signmeup

    signmeup Major Contributor

    7,464
    12
    38
    May 5, 2005
    Canada
    I haven't been here for at least 2 years... maybe 3... and I come back and it's the same old crew spouting "wa, wa, wa... the newbies make me sad..."

    Be helpful if you want and if they don't appreciate... don't help them anymore. This is a forum. If no one "forums" there isn't much point to the place.

    Adrian
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Bubba06

    Bubba06 Just Somebody

    356
    105
    43
    Feb 13, 2005
    Manning SC
    It wasn't that I didn't comprehend what you were trying to convey, I started laughing out loud!
     
  3. spectrum maine

    spectrum maine Member

    244
    38
    28
    Nov 1, 2012
    biddeford, maine
    If it wasn't for the formal training provided here most franchise shops would fail. Its not like their week at corporate covers it.
    The biggest lesson they teach at Signarama corporate is to hire experienced help.
    Maybe there should be a "Greenhorn" section on here.. Honestly, i have been in signs for 38 years & the internet is a wonderful learning tool. You never stop learning.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

    7,311
    591
    113
    Mar 12, 2005
    New England
    I agree spectrum, the internet is a great source of knowledge, and this forum has been the best for general sign info for a while. I have gotten some great solutions, referrals and product tips here. I have also tried to share what I have picked up along the way. But there has been a lot of infighting and it has thinned the ranks of the knowledgeable participants. It take s two to tangle though, and I never understood why anyone thinks it is so important to "prove their point" or get in the last word. Right now the threads that hold any interest for me are getting less common, mostly seems to be specific technical questions about a specific piece of equipment (which is definitely valuable to those in need) and way too general questions about "which printer is the best and cheapest". Anyhow I hope it gets back on course.
     
  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    32,653
    2,128
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA


    It goes without saying, this place has been a great place to get all kindsa information, for supplies, parts, installation questions, tips, networking and most of all.... some life-long friendships. However, some things come to an end and some going on ticking like the old Timex watches. I think more importantly though, is to keep this going as you put it... gets back on course..... we need to offer up some recourse to stop some of the nonsense. However, I disagree about proving a point or having the last word. When someone asks a direct question to someone, are you not obligated to answer it.... or is that cyber-space bad manners ?? I don't see it as fueling, if you are indeed still answering an unknown. Do you consider that having, a 'last word' ?? As for the proving a point angle.... when so many here tend to not understand or grasp a simple idea, I believe it is up to the author to make themselves more clear, so as not to be misunderstood.

    I agree wholeheartedly about the content, though. That was kinda the point, people are asking such vague questions, which are also beyond basics these days... and when asked to further illustrate or explain their needs, they get bent outta shape and an argument ensues.

    So far, the sticky idea is the best. Can we continue to figure out what's wrong, or according to some, it's just the same ol' same ol' ?? That's the attitude that kills this place.
     
  6. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

    7,311
    591
    113
    Mar 12, 2005
    New England
    Personally if I have an "answer" to a question I try to give my information and let it go at that without getting into a long back & forth if they disagree.If they ask for clarification or a follow up questions that's not the same as a thread that devolves into a personality clash. Though sometimes I do make a parting shot at someone who is being a jerk. But then I also ignore them going forward. I don't think there is an "institutional" solution, it's all about personalities and etiquette.
     
  7. bob

    bob Major Contributor

    5,256
    303
    83
    Nov 4, 2005
    earth
    An obscure tenet of Usenet, back before the most of you were born, states that whoever gets in the last word loses.
     
  8. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

    1,855
    531
    113
    Oct 10, 2014
    Florida
    I disagree with recourse to stop "nonsense". Many things that you may consider nonsense many others including myself may consider informative. I consider the paint questions nonsense but try to answer them when they pop up. If you took on a job where you had to spray something, shouldn't you already know this stuff or sub it out to someone who does? I'd say no to both. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone trying to better themselves and expand their horizon. You don't have to reply to every thread, if it's something beneath you than just skip it if you cant drag yourself into posting a helpful no confrontational response.
    Remember that just knowing how to do something will not make you successful at a business, restaurants are a great example. On the other hand, not knowing anything about a trade when starting out doesn't mean that you wont be successful at it either. To me the trade is the easy part to learn, its business knowledge and strategy that's much harder to teach and learn.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

    10,970
    264
    83
    Jun 8, 2004
    Vermont
    there's a big difference between a person who asks a question about a sign type or method that they've never done before and a person who asks how to make a sign. the site name does make it sound more like it is a how to make a sign rather than how do I make this kind of sign.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    32,653
    2,128
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    Okay, let's slow down here. Some of you are starting to go down that road, Adrian, was talking about. We're not debating who's right or wrong or what came first.... we're talking about people receiving the information they need and then get all ugly about how someone said something or what exact words they used or even if it was condescending.

    So, how can we fix the problem of people coming here for the first time or for the 100th time and not understanding people are genuinely helping, but just they don't realize it ??

    Y'all wanna twist and turn other threads, go right on ahead........ but not this one.

    At the rate of good people dropping outta here, we either fix it, fix it now...... or watch this place completely deteriorate. If you people don't see this happening right in front of your eyes..... then perhaps, you're at the wrong forum.

    These new people have gone to a lotta trouble to spruce this place up, get new/more membership and still attract more advertisers. It's up to us to keep this place professional or Hobbytown USA.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

    10,970
    264
    83
    Jun 8, 2004
    Vermont
    that isn't something the members can do, it is the site owner's thing to allow or to let in the hobby people. all the members can do is to ignore them
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    32,653
    2,128
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    Of course it is what we, as members can do. Someone began this place back in 2003, I think, Fred took it over after a few years and now these people have made further changes to the place and we now have what we have. We cannot change the color of the drapes or the quality of the company they keep, but we can as a group..... on a whole, create an atmosphere that is professional, instead of letting these few a$$wipes (hacks) do all the controlling around here. No need for hall monitors or snitches....... just a professional appraoch to anything and everything.

    If someone new is asking a question, check out their profile, ask them some questions and if they don't understand, help them the best ya can, but don't give away the farm. No need to answer silly questions like how much would you charge for this or how do you hinge vinyl or whatever. The fundamentals are for learning on your own time. Come here to hone your talents and become aggressive in this industry. Let the person asking the questions form a real question with real content, instead of us all, guessing what they're talking about. If they can't conduct themselves as professionals, screw 'em. Let them alone and don't be a patsy.

    We as professionals have every right to answer what we want and to whom we want, so I am not saying this is how it is to be done, but just think about who or what you are giving answers to. Things should be earned, not given away.
     
  13. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

    1,855
    531
    113
    Oct 10, 2014
    Florida
    So why don't you just answer the questions that you want to and leave other posters alone that you consider unworthy of help? Not everyone is on the same level and just because they aren't doesn't make them a hack. Just because someone doesn't understand how to hinge a graphic doesn't make them stupid or make the question silly. For all you know they could be a huge screen printing company looking to expand into printing or maybe a shop that just makes sign boxes and doesn't really know some things that you consider basic but knows another side of the business. Maybe a company that only does sandblasted signs and the printing side is foreign to them. What about the family members and spouses of shop owners that unexpectedly die and suddenly they're in a tough spot to quickly figure out the business that was thrown in their lap in order to take care of their family? They come here looking for help and there is nothing wrong with that, in fact Id praise them for doing it. As far as pricing, whats the big issue with that too? I see complaint after complaint about lowballers but no one willing to assist with showing them the right direction to not kill the market. The give away the farm thing, I mean come on. There's more and better information all over the internet. Believe me, you not answering their question is not going to stop them from what they are trying to do.
    I grew up around this business, not as old as many here but, we did hand painted signs in addition to cut vinyl off the old school gerber. If you needed full color you painted it or screen printed. I have plenty of "silly" questions because the sign industry that Im familiar with did not have printers until later and I'm playing catch up. Am I not allowed to be here anymore?
    This is why people give butthurt responses here. The majority of the attacks on the posters are totally unwarranted. I find this approach to us hack people very insulting and take personal offense to it. It's one thing to give a light hearted funny response to something dumb but its totally different to be insulting. You need to reevaluate your boundaries, nobody here is your employee to denigrate as you see fit.
    For all the talk about making this place professional, calling people "a$$wipes" and "hacks" doesn't really fit the narrative.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. hcardwell93

    hcardwell93 Member

    153
    51
    28
    Nov 9, 2015
    Indiana
    Personally I think that if you have thin skin Gino's questions can come across jerk-ish. However I do think what he's trying to do is force the OP to use critical thinking to learn from the situation. If the OP is truly seeking to learn then the questions are valuable. If the OP just got in over his head and is looking for someone to bail out their bacon then butthurt will ensue.

    I've read through a ton of old threads here and Gino's questions force me to come up with context for the situation and have helped me develop standards for how I run my shop from the raw materials, techniques, and pricing that I use, and it's kept me out of a few potential jams.

    I see it as the "teach a man to fish" approach. Yes a specific question can be answered quickly, but if the person asking it doesn't truly understand everything that goes into the question is it really that much help? In math classes I could find the answer to the question in the back of the text book so that I could pass the homework assignment, but it did not help me learn math.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. bob

    bob Major Contributor

    5,256
    303
    83
    Nov 4, 2005
    earth
    I've been plying these waters for some years now and my lack of interest in Making It A better Place or Succoring Those Less Informed or any other Pollyannaesque nonsense approaches total. The particular site is run for-profit by a coven of folk who give every appearance of those that could not care less about the quality ,or lack thereof, of discourse hereabouts. It's certainly not in my job description to go out into the canebrake and live-trap people to participate. That's their problem, I have sufficient problems of my own to worry about someone else's.

    Here's how it works, here or most anywhere else:

    Someone posts. Someone responds. If the post is stupid or erudite and if the response is tender and caring or rude. So what? Is there any organism in the galaxy, the aforementioned Polllyannas notwithstanding, that cares a dollop of ossified wombat snot? Is anything that occurs in these waters going to change the course of history?

    For moi this place is endlessly entertaining regardless of any information content.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  16. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    3,153
    1,774
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    Like bob says, I come here for the entertainment, I also like AFV, especially when it involves a chainsaw and a tree. I watch it while eating ice cream with a dollop of wombat snot on top.
     
  17. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    3,977
    1,458
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    Asking why I bid on a project or am I insured, are not critical thinking questions. Those are questions with attitude and shows an anger. If you couldn't or wouldn't answer my OP question, then excuse yourself from the discussion because your not helping.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Rick

    Rick Certified Enneadecagon Designer

    6,955
    389
    83
    Apr 17, 2003
    Valle Vista
    Having been on many sign sites, I can attest these are good questions... many many times sign people come on here asking about project out of their skill level... things they may never consider... like insurance, the need for a contractors license, permitting, codes. Asking can be an ego/anger issue, it can also be a warning to the OP that there are other things to consider besides how this is done or where can I get that. I met my business partner here because I gave them something to think about before proceeding with a project, not everyone here is a jerk.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

    1,855
    531
    113
    Oct 10, 2014
    Florida
    I agree 100%. These slights arent clever and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see right through it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. bob

    bob Major Contributor

    5,256
    303
    83
    Nov 4, 2005
    earth
    You don't seem to understand how all of this works sport...

    When it's your turn to post you get to post whatever it might please you to post.

    When and if someone might choose to respond they get to post whatever it might please them to post.

    Whether or not you find a response useful, irritating, insulting, or whatever, the one thing you do not get to do is tell someone to, and I quote, "...excuse yourself from the discussion..." or in any other way tell anyone what is acceptable and perhaps pleasing to your delicate sensibilities. That, you unspeakable twit, will end in the gates of hell opening upon you and you incurring the wrath of the forces of darkness. So to speak.

    So go now and write when you learn how. Or not. No one cares.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page

 


Loading...