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Discussion So, Why Is It.....................................

Discussion in 'Member Shout Out' started by Gino, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    When some member(s) asks a question, he/she gets answers that are most helpful while other people ask questions, they get railroaded ??

    I don't believe there is any sign etiquette which needs to be learned as to how to ask a question, but I do think there are certain conditions that might enter into the end results.

    Professionalism should always be at the top of the list. End results should be professional, techniques and methods should be professional and business attitude should be professional. When someone asks a question, especially around this place, it becomes quite evident of someone's knowledge, especially what some of the questions contain....... or lack.

    When you look at someone's profile, it also gives an indication of someone's level of knowledge. Now, most of you will say..... well, YOU didn't know this coming in and you hafta start somewhere. Stop being so hard on us. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but we didn't learn while making a professional sign..... on our own. We learned along side of professionals. We actually learned our trade before we hung a shingle out. Some of us are self-taught, but none of us think someone else is having to tell us everything in an instant and on your terms. You are the one asking questions and are in need of answers..... not us.

    I pity the poor customers who are under an illusion that while you pretend to be a professional, you're really not and only faking it. However, they are paying for your mistakes and possibly in the end paying for an inferior product. Then, with a bad taste in their mouths, that same customer now badmouths all sign people as being all corrupt. Now, we hafta educate the customer about your kind and how many hacks are really in this business.

    Therefore, when someone asks you if you have adequate insurance, or an electricians license or permitting or certain knowledge in woodworking, mechanical fasteners or just in general how to do common basic things.... it is generally, because the OP doesn't seem to have any idea these things are needed, let alone required in most cases. While I'm a good one to remain focus and stay on topic, the topic must be identified and if the OP cannot do that, then we hafta go fishing, cause the OP has communication problems..... and can't even ask a decent question to help themselves.

    Let's discuss this and see if we can find some middle ground to try and get things done.

    There is no test or evaluation to get into this place, but your answers are gonna depend on the rest of us and if you want solid answers, you're gonna hafta at least try. If you think google is your friend, it might at least point you in the right direction so you can at least know what you might be talking about, before you get here, asking silly questions or using wrong terminology. We all use it, but to say you learned the sign trade by google and u-tubes is a joke.
     
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  2. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    dear Dr. Gino/Mr Hyde,

    could you stop using "hafta" as it isn't a word and it brings the whole place down.

    thanks
     
  3. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    Honestly I just ignore the questions where people are obviously in over their heads or that could be answered by calling up a reputable supplier. Most of the questions (especially about printers, vinyl types, or cutters) have already been asked many times over and all that is needed is a simple forum search.
     
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  4. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Nope.

    Of course I could, but I won't and even if you asked it with the proper English, I still won't.

    Now, let's remain on topic and try to have an adult discussion, here ??

    thank you ​
     
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  5. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    sorry, having and adult conversation with you "feels" like an oxymoron
     
  6. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Google will lead them here. When they ask their question and someone on here gives them something they don't want to hear they seem to all have the same knee jerk reaction, They write so eloquently on how we are such imbeciles and they have every right to bash us for our bad manners and to get a life.

    Action, reaction.
     
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  7. Sign Works

    Sign Works Very Active Member

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    I think most questions are answered appropriately.

    Gonna open a medical clicic, which scoupel should I buy?
     
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  8. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    I hafta laugh at your english lessons today. I's bringing me down, Dude.
     
  9. HDvinyl

    HDvinyl Trump 2020

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    halfway house.
    I love stickers.
     
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  10. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    Seems they usually go off the rails after a butthurt response to what they consider a less than satisfying or demeaning answer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  11. Pippin Decals

    Pippin Decals Active Member

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    ddarlak-
    Actually it is a word and it is recognized. It means " Have To" . What does HAFTA mean? - HAFTA Definition - Meaning of HAFTA - InternetSlang.com
     
  12. Bubba06

    Bubba06 Just Somebody

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    Hey Gino,
    Do I print, cut, then laminate, then cut again or do I laminate, print, then cut or what. I'm new to this sticker business, but want them to come out right. Can you help me please!!! I hear you are the one that can help me figure this out.
     
  13. oldgoatroper

    oldgoatroper Roper of Goats. Old ones.

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  14. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    I ask stupid questions sometimes. Usually it's after googling, searching this forum, and checking a few other spots.

    Sometimes when someone replied with the answer I want to smack my forhead. Others it clicks.in my bran right after I hit post...

    There's always different ways of doing things. I'd say most of my questions are asking if someone knows a better way - not because I don't know how to do it, I just think the way it's being done is archaic.

    Most of my stuff is self taught, as all the people who knew my position were gone before I joined it. So it's all been my own researching and learning... So if I do something and think that while this does work, there has to be a better way... I usually ask.

    I think stuff like that is fine. Improving the quality of your work, whether your a 30 year veteran, or a newbie who's been doing this for 2 years (me), should always be tolerated.

    Asking what printer to buy because you want to get into printing stickers, or what to look out for in a used, busted printer your buying though... Some people want to be spoon fed answers. And then ignore all your advice on it. It's just how the world works.

    I will day this though... I've been in many different fields, and had a lot of different hobbies... And it seems sign production attracts the most people who don't bother to do any research at all ;p I don't think there's been a day yet on here that I haven't seen a new "what printer should I get" post.
     
  15. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    In spite of the fact this predates digital by a a decade or two, follow this advice and you should be fine...
     

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  16. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Active Member

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    I have always freely admitted that I don't know everything about this business. But, having hand painted signs pretty much every summer in the early 80s and then returning to the business full time in '96, it's not like I'm ignorant, either. I haven't had to weld anything together in at least 10 years, so- yeah- I'm rusty on the procedure. Same for what glue goes on channel letters (and whether it can be used on polycarbonate) or other things I haven't done in a while.
    But I check the threads here because I'm interested in learning. Posts that lead with "what printer/plotter/router/etc" I have come to generally ignore (unless someone mentions specific brand that I am familiar with) because there are already plenty of posts here to read through about the same damned thing. I also generally ignore the posts that look like they were texted in by an illiterate fourth grader, and font ID requests (though it's fun to test my brain, there are members here much better at than I).
    I get that people who think that just because they bought a cheap printer and plotter six months ago and have been making STICKERS YO! for their sister's boyfriend's SICK ride and then suddenly think they're qualified to make a 60' pylon sign with an EMC, halo lit channel letters, and routed faces are one of the big reasons our industry suffers. You just have to hope they don't kill someone when they inevitably screw up- and try to ignore them, as Asuma mentioned (sometimes, though, the wiseass in me insists on answering).
    I once had a boss who got into the sign business because (his words) "when (he) was a facilities manager at (big corporation) it was always hard to get the sign guys to call back, so I thought it would be a good business." His franchise shop (means to an end job for me) lasted just about two years (six months before my time there and six months after). Thank god he didn't know about this site, or he'd have been one of "those" people in the early days.

    So, back to Gino's initial post- I just don't think it's going to happen with the rookies. I find the posters of a lot of these rudimentary (ignorant, whatever) questions act very much like people do in general- expecting to have their every whim catered to (or every solution spoon fed to them- but only if it agrees with their preconceived notions). When that doesn't happen, they get belligerent and somehow, it's the fault of the people who actually took the time to answer them. You can't expect professionalism from such immature minds. That said, though, there are plenty of "old salts" on here whose responses to even not-so-ignorant questions come across as quite ill-mannered (read *******-ish).

    Maybe guidelines here would be good. Here are some suggestions. I'd be interested in reading yours.
    - If you need font help, make your headline "Need font help, please."
    - If you need printer/router/plotter/engraver/crane trucks or other equipment help, always include the make and model- and the age of the machine, if known. You also need to tell us what step you have taken to correct the issue your having.
    - In reference to above, if the question is along the lines of "why is it doing this to my prints?" or "why are the lights not bright enough" or whatever, include a picture.
    - If your question is about pricing, you need to tell us how you priced it before you get to the part about how we would price it (though the answer is almost always going to be (time x labor rate) + (materials x mark up) + (any permits, additional costs)= price. And yes, that's a very simplified equation.
    - If your question is about what printer you should buy, just shut up. There are hundreds of posts asking the same damned question. If you have questions about a specific printer, great- but that generalized "which one should I get" is going to get you blasted 7 out of 10 times. The same could be said for those types of questions about plotters, routers, lasers, flatbeds, laminators, crane trucks, etc, too.

    Finally- when someone does answer your question, don't argue with them. Ostensibly, you came to this site to call on our expertise. Being pissy about answers that don't jibe with your opinions make you look like an idiot- not us.

    My .02.
     
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  17. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Yes, I don't know. o_O
     
  18. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    I like stupid questions. Sometimes good information gets squeezed out of them. I just hate click bait type titles of posts, which is how I ended up here. Put a specific title to it so people don't waste their time. Its also really annoying when the place is filled with them, then you try to search for something and cant find it because there's a million "what about this..." ,"hey really need help", "tell me what this is", "my printers broke" etc etc. So someone starts a new thread and gets chastised for not searching or being "stupid" when its near impossible to find stuff on here.
     
  19. Pippin Decals

    Pippin Decals Active Member

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    :p
    HAHA !!
     
  20. Rick

    Rick Certified Enneadecagon Designer

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    When I see a post like this, I'm reminded of a few threads that I participated in that I knew had missing information vital to answering the question. We have hundreds of threads that go awry, and mostly because we don't have enough information or they get offended when we try to drag more info out of them. A newbie has no tricks to share and nothing ups their sleeve, it's us who are trying to give some knowledge.

    One such post is this one...

    Wrap Sales Cold Calling Tips?

    I believe he's out of the wrap business if you go by his website being down and no active social media...
    Gotta wonder what happened... I wasn't being a smart ***, his question needed some clarification.

    Another is this one...

    New from the Bay Area . . .

    Simple question right?
    But in my opinion, how can you hire an experienced designer without knowing enough about the business.
    Plus, the franchise they purchased is supposed to help in the hiring process... there was not enough information and I was not being a smart ***, I was really trying to help.

    At least they are still in business, but they did it by using other peoples work on their site and by doing work that requires a contractors license, which they clearly do not... not cool
    (EDIT) Looks like they no longer have a storefront...

    --------

    The other thing is... many threads, the OP does not follow up...
    Please Help...wood Face Monument Fabrication Help
    Shop logo attempt
    My logo... thoughts?


    Or nothing was learned...
    New Logo... Critique?

    So when newbies get buggy about veteran sign makers answers and say "WE HAD TO START SOMEWHERE", they should know that many many times, our advice goes unheeded, we have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on this site answering these questions, and many show no appreciation.

    I'm thinking the belligerent newbies musta had Mamas that raised them wrong, if they have an attitude, their gonna hafta expect some resistance...
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
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