Someone stole my design

[visual800]

Funny how the sign guys and gals always get f****d over with design. Bet ya none of these top notch graphic houses ever part with their designs unless payment is in full.

Thats because they are selling the logo or the art. I always do free art its how I get my business. Ive said this before ill say it again. If a customer contacts you and you want a "design fee" they will say thanks and go to the next guy. You will get NO WORK at all. I have never know any signguy in this town or the tri county area that charges for art. If you do thats great do not bash me. Cause all too often the ones that bark they get paid for all their art will be on here posting one day someone stole their design and they just let this art fee slide by

 

[Joe Diaz]

Thats because they are selling the logo or the art. I always do free art its how I get my business. Ive said this before ill say it again. If a customer contacts you and you want a "design fee" they will say thanks and go to the next guy. You will get NO WORK at all. I have never know any signguy in this town or the tri county area that charges for art. If you do thats great do not bash me. Cause all too often the ones that bark they get paid for all their art will be on here posting one day someone stole their design and they just let this art fee slide by

Not "bashing" but that's because no one in your area values design, including the shops doing it. The shops in your area have created that market. Your customers aren't going to just start valuing a certain service you offer on their own. You have to work for it. You have to sell it. You have to convince them that your time and expertise is worth something, and worth something more than just a chance to do work for them.

What happens if everyone starts believing that your labor should be given away too? That the sign's value is only the cost of the materials it's built with? How is the service of planning and designing something any less valuable then the service of constructing it?

I know first hand that a sign shop can sell design and that it's more than possible to convince people design has real value, but the first person you need to convince is yourself. I also know you, to a certain extent, value it because you were willing to contact an attorney when someone stole your design work. How can someone steal your designs if you say "I always do free art"?

 

[signage]

Not "bashing" but that's because no one in your area values design, including the shops doing it. The shops in your area have created that market. Your customers aren't going to just start valuing a certain service you offer on their own. You have to work for it. You have to sell it. You have to convince them that your time and expertise is worth something, and worth something more than just a chance to do work for them.

What happens if everyone starts believing that your labor should be given away too? That the sign's value is only the cost of the materials it's built with? How is the service of planning and designing something any less valuable then the service of constructing it?

I know first hand that a sign shop can sell design and that it's more than possible to convince people design has real value, but the first person you need to convince is yourself. I also know you, to a certain extent, value it because you were willing to contact an attorney when someone stole your design work. How can someone steal your designs if you say "I always do free art"?

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Customers shouldn't have to pay for your practice or inexperience.

That's a 3 minute layout.

Now if the guy came back at you with revisions and STILL stole your design, make the donkey pay the full 2 hours.

3 minute layout huh? I'd love to see you generate a fresh idea, draw it in vector, and photoshop it onto a photo in 3 minutes flat. I would spend at least that long referencing and researching before I even start to pick up a pen or mouse. At least if you're gonna bash the guy's skill, let's be a tad bit more realistic.

 

[HDvinyl]

Yes, 3 minutes if I already did a sketch.

I didn't bash.

He didn't have a "fresh idea", he took someone else's logo and "changed it a bit"

 

[skyhigh]

Just because something is simple doesn't mean that thought wasn't put into it. The time spent taking measurements, setting up the files, etc I'm sure equaled more than 30 minutes.

Who know what their logo looked like before? I think 2 hours is completely reasonable.

That!!!

And, the customer seemed to like it enough that no changes were made.

 

[Billct2]

You just learned a lesson.
I'd send them an invoice, but don't expect to get paid.
Move on.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Sometimes when cars are going a little fast down the street and they run over a rock, it can be kicked out pretty hard... sometimes even hard enough to break a window... that would be a shame, wouldn't it? Or a kid riding a bike down the sidewalk and "accidentally" falling into the window scratching the beautiful vinyl job... happens all the time, doesn't it?
Okay, those are extreme and childish things to do... just kidding around!
Pssst... go by one night and quickly spray down the window with rapid remover...

It's a lesson learned. Really not worth wasting time on if you ask me. You are out, what, half hour or so of design time? Blacklist the customer and move on. Getting into a legal battle over something like that would cost you more than it's worth. Life is too short!

 

[HDvinyl]

he agreed to an hour of design after i emailed him an invoice.

Let us focus on the positive.

 

[astro8]

Pssst... go by one night and quickly spray down the window with rapid remover...

..........

 

[ova]

What about the other shop that actually did the work? Are they responsible for not asking the customer if they own the art work?

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but this is what I run into many times.

We do not design very many logos here. More times than not, we're only ask to reproduce logos for banners, cheap coro, and sometimes aluminum signs for ball fields, golf outings etc.


We get the usual business card or logo on copy paper. First thing I always ask is do they have better artwork. I explain that someone had to create it and does the company have permission to let other shops use the particular design to make more signs. I also explain about how the company may have payed for the design, but didn't buy the artwork.

So my question is: Do you just keep your mouth shut and do the work or explain to the customer hoping he doesn't go elsewhere?

Right or wrong, I do the job, build the repro price into the job and move on.


Dave

 

[klingsdesigns]

Customers shouldn't have to pay for your practice or inexperience.

That's a 3 minute layout.

Now if the guy came back at you with revisions and STILL stole your design, make the donkey pay the full 2 hours.

Believe me the actual layout didnt take long at all.. Its the 50 emails and the 50 changes and different layouts i had to do that took my time.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Believe me the actual layout didnt take long at all.. Its the 50 emails and the 50 changes and different layouts i had to do that took my time.

Always is but nobody wants to consider that. It's easy to just recreate finished art, the time comes in all the bs involved in getting it to that point.

Glad you got compensated for some of it.

 

[Techman]

You will get NO WORK at all. I have never know any signguy in this town or the tri county area that charges for art

I get all the work I want. I do not give away any design for any reason. I also compete with too many of those who fail to understand the value of their work.

I also know more than a few who do not give away their designs. In fact, I know a few who charge jaw dropping amounts for their work and compete with those who give away their designs.

Its all the the business plan. Fly by the seat of the pants with no flight plan and you will continue to fly piper cubs as an amateur restricted to your home radius. Learn to fly on instruments with a flight plan and you will pilot a much larger craft to the outer reaches of your planet..

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

He didn't have a "fresh idea", he took someone else's logo and "changed it a bit"

Very true. I forgot to consider that fact since I read most of this post yesterday evening. But still, 3 minutes is a bit unrealistic. I'm just trying to bring it down to earth a bit. The way you put it it devalues the very thing we are trying to defend. Besides, free layout or not, any layout deserves more than 3 minutes of my time. And regardless, not everyone is capable of doing a layout like this in even 5 minutes...or 10 minutes. As was stated some people spend more time browsing fonts alone, myself included. Perhaps some would view that as a frivolous, unnecessary thing but good artwork/layouts sell...or at least that is the idea.

 

[Gino]

I like happy endings..... and the customer agreed to pay for an hour. I think the OP is fetching a just settlement in this case.

Isn't this one finished, yet ??

 

[Mosh]

You both needed to kern the "P" over alittle closer....

 

[Baz]

For a job like this i would not charge a "design fee" ... This is just to easy a job. BUT ... I would most certainly ask for a deposit on the job itself (which would include costs for the little bit of programming involved). And i would not have done up any sketch before getting the deposit. I have no problems losing jobs because i would not provide artwork before getting some money upfront.

Been burned enough times thank you.

 

[klingsdesigns]

Can anyone send me an email to klings@charter.net of what your proofs/layout of proofs look like when you send them to customers?

 

[Gino]

It helps when you have a watermark on your artwork, but like mentioned, this thing hardly needs it.

Where you need to get this across is verbally when you initially talk to the person. If you still want to get paid for artwork, you need to tell them upfront before anything else.
After that's accomplished, you send them a quote for the work being done and explain that all artwork is your property until it is paid for in full by the customer and you release it to them. Once the deposit is given, then you start your designs/layouts and when they accept it, you collect the balance and if it suits your requirements money-wise, you hand over the written rights for them to use it for anything down the line.

You do realize, that by getting an hour's worth of wages, you are handing them full rights to use this artwork for anything from television commercials to billboards to T shirts. Had you gotten your upfront cost and not put a bad taste in their mouth to do business with you, you could've quite possibly had all their work from here on out.

When you have a method of doing business and follow your own rules, it's kinda hard to mess up. Doing this stuff haphazardly only cheapens your worth and the worth of the next guy doing business with this guy.

Had you a set of shop policies, and this was indeed you method of operations, you wouldn't have to ask fundamental questions. This is no tongue lashing by any means, but where can you go and get your automobile worked on and not see the shop's rules, the company's policies and the insurance and warranty completely in plain view ??
Did you ever show up at the grocery store, go shopping and walk right by the register with your cart of food without paying ?? I think someone will call you back and have you read the company policy. How 'bout going to a baseball or football game. The rules are so big in writing you have to be a complete moron to break the rules.

Why are you different and expect people to obey your thoughts ??