Something has changed

[ucmj22]

I dont know what it is lately, But the last few threads Ive started or been a part of have really gone down hill. When I first started posting here, which isnt that long ago compared to many of you, people could disagree and still keep the conversation light and unoffending.

Newbs would come in (me included), post some terrible design looking for kudos, or saying they want to start a signshop with 3 grand and asking what printer they should get, They would get knocked down a peg, realize they arent the coolest thing since sliced bread and we would all move on. The newbs were better for it as they tried harder to be better. I remember when I first started posting here, I could have gotten in a lot of arguments with Jill (sorry to drag you in here). She would pick apart one of my designs, or someone else's, and I remember thinking who do you think you are! but I kept my mouth shut, kept reading, thanked her for her input, and slowly but surely once my ego got out of the way I started realizing she was right in a lot of the things she said. And now I'm glad I kept my mouth shut and my ears open because I am a better designer for it and I didnt tick people off in the process.

Now as soon as people disagree, they are at each others throats making accusations and insinuations against the others character as a person. Lets face it, the vast majority of people on here have never met another user in person, yet some are willing to make personal attacks against character as if they know them intimately. Maybe we have been posting too many general chit chat posts, putting a little too much personal belief out there that is taking away from the professionalism... I dont know, But something Has changed, and I dont like it.

Dan A. had the same feeling last march when he posted this. Maybe its cyclical.

I think people loose a lot of respect for each other when we start arguing political, religious, or even socioeconomic beliefs. Lets face it, when we make these threads, or posts, its self serving. NO ONE is going to change ANYONES mind on these issues through a professional internet forum, so I have found that it is best to stay away from these topics if for no other reason than to save respect for yourself. I know I have posted on some, its hard not to at times, but I realized when reading through some of these threads and losing respect for some members, I didnt want to be out there having respect lost for me when someone else is perusing the thread. Just something to think about.

 

[Jillbeans]

I could have gotten in a lot of arguments with Jill (sorry to drag you in here). She would pick apart one of my designs, or someone else's, and I remember thinking who do you think you are! but I kept my mouth shut, kept reading, thanked her for her input, and slowly but surely once my ego got out of the way I started realizing she was right in a lot of the things she said.

I'm glad you read my comments in the way they are intended to be...to teach.
I'm not the world's greatest designer by any means but I know when something needs some TLC. And if I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. Sometimes I don't say anything anymore!

Love...Jill

 

[SignManiac]

And what does this have to do with signs? I would work on your formatting more and increase your positive space.

 

[John Butto]

Do not think it is just on Signs101. It is everywhere you turn nowadays with the news on TV and going thru a major presidential race where the country is divided. People are giving their first gut reaction to things where the facade of being politically correct is being torn down. Some take it as humor when they make a comment and others feel it is directed towards them in a spiteful way. Art and society coexist and we are all changing if we like it or not. And on a side note, ucmj22 you are a better writer than me.

 

[anotherdog]

Says you...

To be honest I feel much the same way. This forum has grown to be entertainment for a number of seemingly jaded posters.

I can see the temptation if your business is already crowded and some newbie comes on for advice about starting up in their garage, but the flames start right away. You can only ask insightful questions when you have insight. Until then the questions will seem stupid.

I value my subscription to this website, it has paid me back many times by saving me money and time. I think the "townsfolk" of this here forum need to band together to deal with pointless flames as soon as they break out.

That or we need a sheriff!

 

[tsgstl]

Do not think it is just on Signs101. It is everywhere you turn nowadays with the news on TV and going thru a major presidential race where the country is divided. People are giving their first gut reaction to things where the facade of being politically correct is being torn down. Some take it as humor when they make a comment and others feel it is directed towards them in a spiteful way. Art and society coexist and we are all changing if we like it or not. And on a side note, ucmj22 you are a better writer than me.

That is so true, I have our local NBC news subscribed on my Facebook account. It could be a story they post about a dog being tortured and within 3 comments it goes political and blows up. Unfortunately a no politics policy should be enforced or just deal with the reality of the situation as it stands right now.

I really don't understand the personal attacks in here but it doesn't bother me either. I don't not like you because you don't agree with me.
I have a strong personality and I seem to get slammed a lot after I comment on something (mostly the more social related threads). I guess I should just let it go but its hard when I get 4 different people quoting me and calling me names.
Like Fred I admin a site as well and it is impossible to try and control a social gathering like this forum.

Some of the more "loud" members here are also the most knowledgeable and helpful. Their input and replies would certainly be missed even if I disagree with some of their posts.

 

[SlightlyChilled]

People I think have a little less control behind a key board. My self included. They just fire off and say that sucks and move on. Now with that being said I would rather someone say it sucks BUT also tell me why. I'm cool with that. Now that I have been doing this for like 5 years and (I still suck) what gets me is the people that come here and think (SIGNS101) must be for newbies. They will teach me the world. NOPE not here if you show the fine people here that you are trying they will help if you are like give me give me well there is the door. I read and read here if you would like smoke blown up you back side I can show you a nice site that Selle's cheap cutters and they will float your ego till the cows come home.... There are some harsh words here and get it we are all adults. Some people go a little to far. But I do like it here.

 

[Fred Weiss]

That is so true, I have our local NBC news subscribed on my Facebook account. It could be a story they post about a dog being tortured and within 3 comments it goes political and blows up. Unfortunately a no politics policy should be enforced or just deal with the reality of the situation as it stands right now.

I really don't understand the personal attacks in here but it doesn't bother me either. I don't not like you because you don't agree with me.
I have a strong personality and I seem to get slammed a lot after I comment on something (mostly the more social related threads). I guess I should just let it go but its hard when I get 4 different people quoting me and calling me names.
Like Fred I admin a site as well and it is impossible to try and control a social gathering like this forum.

Some of the more "loud" members here are also the most knowledgeable and helpful. Their input and replies would certainly be missed even if I disagree with some of their posts.

I think it's a reflection of recent events more than anything else and I may have been too permissive in allowing a few gun control threads to run. We've always had flamers coming and going and a heavy hand by admins in dealing with it is counter productive in nearly every case. The best solution has always been peer pressure by members and setting a positive example. Admin intervention is, for me, a last resort.

 

[Border]

I think one of the easiest fixes is to simply stop replying when things get heated. Too often it seems like the common denominator in these arguments is that the people involved seem to have the need to get in the last comment.
Of course that will never work when you have more than 1 person involved who shares the same characteristic of having to have the last word all the time.

Some people simply don't have an "off" switch or know when to say enough is enough and let the other person just think what they want to think.
If you often find yourself in these arguments, try it just once... just give in and think what you want, but try keeping it to yourself.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

I have to agree with the OP. I've noticed it and have adjusted the time I spend on here accordingly. I'm also more picky as to which threads I give my time to. I will always be a member of S101 so long as it's running, as I feel I owe it that because of how far I've come since joining. I was quite apprehensive when I first joined S101... heck, I was majorly intimidated by the professionalism and seemingly well seasoned members. Criticism was given AND taken the way it should be. It has changed, but that's unavoidable. All you can do is weed through the mess and find the good, because there is still lots of good on here.

People need somewhere to vent their frustrations and dump on people because of what's happening in their lives and what safer place to do that than in a social media setting where you don't have to stand face-to-face with someone. It is happening in all Forums, on FB, Twitter, etc... not just here.

The fact that I've had the privilege of meeting many members in person really helps me understand where they are coming from when I read their posts. I have a great deal of respect for them. There are also a handful that I haven't met and I feel the same way about them. You can just tell by what they post and how they handle "conflict" that they are good people that I'd like to meet one day (and likely will)!

Kudos to Gino for starting the "Friends" post. A great step in "taking back the Forum"!

I'd be curious to see the ratio of "crap" that goes on in the Premium Forums vs. the public forums. Wonder if that has any relevance?

 

[Tim Aucoin]

I think one of the easiest fixes is to simply stop replying when things get heated. Too often it seems like the common denominator in these arguments is that the people involved seem to have the need to get in the last comment.
Of course that will never work when you have more than 1 person involved who shares the same characteristic of having to have the last word all the time.

Some people simply don't have an "off" switch or know when to say enough is enough and let the other person just think what they want to think.
If you often find yourself in these arguments, try it just once... just give in and think what you want, but try keeping it to yourself.

 

[ucmj22]

I'm glad you read my comments in the way they are intended to be...to teach.
I'm not the world's greatest designer by any means but I know when something needs some TLC. And if I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. Sometimes I don't say anything anymore!

Love...Jill

I hope you took my comments as a compliment. Even though I sometimes disagree with you on general aesthetic, you are spot on when is comes to balance, contrast and composition.

And on a side note, ucmj22 you are a better writer than me.

I kind of felt like my initial post was a rambling jumble of sentences too long for their own good, but Im glad the point got across.

I think one of the easiest fixes is to simply stop replying when things get heated. Too often it seems like the common denominator in these arguments is that the people involved seem to have the need to get in the last comment.
Of course that will never work when you have more than 1 person involved who shares the same characteristic of having to have the last word all the time.

I am quite political, and I have deep convictions. I love having meaningful conversations with people on topics of religion and politics, and I often do. The problem is that it is impossible to have a meaningful dialogue on these topics in this forum. Too many people are concerned with being right and being heard than they are with hearing the other side. These conversations are best had in person, where more respectful tactics are usually taken. I agree, I think we all need to learn how to just let things go from time to time.

 

[Mosh]

1/2 the people got "FoxNewsed" and the other half are of loose moral standards like myself....

 

[Gino]

The best thing in this whole thread so far is reading your insert of the old thread by Dan A. I went back and saw things I didn't see the first time around and the thing that caught my eye the most was the return of Arlo after announcing his quitting and then returning. Perhaps he will do it again and grace our threads with his presence and wisdom once more.

I agree with Fred 100%. It's a sign of the times. Everywhere... everyone is on edge about everything. No one can tolerate anything for more than about 2 minutes before they explode and do something stoopid. Everyone is out to make a name for themselves and if that means demeaning someone.... so be it. If that means killing someone else..... so be it. There's no end to the possibilities some people will go to to make a point or prove their self righteousness.

Let's see, we've had aggressive drivers for years, but now they get a title which is now considered 'Road Rage'.
Years ago we had schoolyard or playground bullies. Back then, they had to make physical contact to hold the title, now you just hafta say something wrong and some thinned skinned kid goes whack-o and has an excuse to blow his school mates away.
Anyone remember when we were scolded by your parents or teachers for doing wrong..... now you can't..... and YOU can be put in jail for trying to correct someone for being bad.

The world changes, but I'm sure my grandparents thought the same when they saw the Stock Market crash in '29. Progress takes on all shapes and sizes. If ya can't hold your own, don't make the rest of us suffer because ya can't take the heat. Move onward or roll over outta the way. Ya hafta Bremen how when Big Band music was being pushed out for gyrating hips and sexy poses by Elvis and the horrible look of long hair of the Beatles was considered the beginning of the end. Now it's heavy metal and rap and the world is still churning.



Again, there are leaders and there are followers. Pick one..... and do it well.

 

[Sam I Am]

My .02, devalued of course....

I've said this many times and it may be the first here, I dunno. When typing away the thoughts and answering posts, things get lost in translation. There is no way to see a hand jesture, a smile, voice inflection or body language. Those who've met me in person, know I'm pretty much what you see is what you get. By that same token, if someone is here at my shop and I call them a dumbass and I'm shaking my head and laughing as I do it, it's known as no malice intended.
If it's typed out, there's three ways to see it, A. as I intended, (probably) in jest, B. taken as an insult, C. everyone else grabbing popcorn waiting to interject one way or the other.

Dan's post is very valid, although it still had repercussions and attacks on another "lettering" site even though most everyones avatar IS their face. Not another to drag Jill in, but she knows of this to be true.

Best thing I've learned over the years, my skin is exceptionally thick, I read & re- read posts & replies before hitting send, and even re-read the posts...again there's three ways to see it....but God forbid punctuation be left out.

A comma could have saved Grandma's life....i.e. Let's eat, Grandma / Let's eat Grandma

Nutshell, in this day of rapid fire text / post / reply communication, nothing compares with a voice or face to face communication.

 

[peavey123]

Has something really changed though? I don't know about that? Honestly, there used to be a politics area that got prety heated and since removed and I seem to remember a guy named Old Paint who used to get under lots of peoples skin. Or bob...and I'm sure many, many more I can't remember who were way worse.

I think it's the nature of the internet as others have said. This forum is super tame compared to others I belong too, so I don't really notice much I guess?

 

[CES020]

I'd also note that a number of people that claim things should be nicer really need to focus on being nicer themselves. It's that old situation where someone at work is doing poorly and the joke of a manager won't deal with them, so they call everyone in and tell everyone that some people are slacking and need to do better. Not a single person thinks that person is them when they leave the meeting. The slacker walks out thinking it's the guy next to him, everyone else knows it's the slacker. In the end, nothing changes.

There was a recent thread by someone saying that people on here weren't as friendly as they used to be in the old days. The very next day, they posted one of the meanest things I've seen on here in a long time, telling someone they had AIDS. WTF?

Do we really need to go back and remind people of the Addy days? People PM'd and begged people to back off and every day, it would be another day of bashing.

If you want this all to change, you need to lead by example. I'm trying my best not to get sucked into things these days. I've typed things up and then promptly deleted them a few times because I knew it wouldn't change anything.

If some would spend as much time helping others as the do bashing them, it would be a radical change.

Just my opinion.

 

[ucmj22]

I've typed things up and then promptly deleted them a few times because I knew it wouldn't change anything.
Just my opinion.

I've found myself doing this more often.

 

[Billct2]

My rules for this and any other online board

1.I won't say anything here I wouldn't say in person.

2. No one is going to change their opinion because of mine.

3. Does it need to be said, does it need to be said now, do I need to say it.

4. The last word is not the "winner".

 

[SignManiac]

I try to ignore anything political or religious, and avoid other topics that my better sense knows will trigger a flaming war. For the most part, I'm only interested in sign and design topics. That is the primary purpose of 101. Not that I haven't been guilty one time in my life of making a mistake, but I try hard now to think twice, post once.

Most people here are good, even Mosh! And there are a few who really suck, you know who you are and so do the rest of us. Ha ha, now everyone is wondering who it is

Human nature is flawed, and some people just love to wallow in others misery. Learn not to get sucked into the bs. It's really a waste of energy folks. Put as much energy into your designs and that will actually pay bigger dividends.