Sq Ft Charges

[rjssigns]

Not rude to ask for pricing, just goofy. Every market is different as well as every job. Trying to nail down a set price only works with raw materials when figuring input costs. After that it costs what it costs to complete the job to the clients satisfaction.
You can really back yourself into a corner trying to set a fixed price for given products.

If bringing printing in house sounds like a slam dunk you're in for a huge nasty I want to choke someone learning curve.(and lots of expense) And that's before you get to deal with demanding clients.

At this point figuring out pricing is the least of your worries.

 

[Fmeroney]

Sorry for offending you, not what my intent was. I prefaced the question saying that very same thing. Being rude in my book would take more than a simple question on the forum. However, I think asking pricing is a good topic. It only helps all of us in the long run. Its not rocket science but getting charged a certain amount from one vendor does not give me what I'm looking for. The basic underlying question is not what you charge your customers, but more importantly what the cost per soft and typical margins.

Not to sound harsh...but as I have said before I believe its rude to ask for pricing.

Now, having said that, apparently you were outsourcing your printing in the past, that should give you a pretty good idea what to charge.

It really isn't rocket science, if it were our rockets would be exploding on the pad!

Other than that, Welcome to Signs 101

 

[Fmeroney]

Never said it was a slam dunk, also my client would only be me. Im attempting to reduce my overhead cost by printing in-house. That is why I'm looking for typical materials cost other than base raw material like sintra or gator. I need info out of my current scope i.e. ink, vinyl, paper, and whatever else.

Would you not agree that asking questions before jumping in would be less Goofy than not? Don't want to buy a 100k worth of equipment to save me nothing.

In any case, thanks to all of you for your help! Even the forum flamers.

Not rude to ask for pricing, just goofy. Every market is different as well as every job. Trying to nail down a set price only works with raw materials when figuring input costs. After that it costs what it costs to complete the job to the clients satisfaction.
You can really back yourself into a corner trying to set a fixed price for given products.

If bringing printing in house sounds like a slam dunk you're in for a huge nasty I want to choke someone learning curve.(and lots of expense) And that's before you get to deal with demanding clients.

At this point figuring out pricing is the least of your worries.

 

[OldPaint]

hard for me to understand HOW.... any one with a $20-40k machine that uses 60" or wider material, boxes of ink and electricity and TIME....... can make a living selling this stuff for $2-4 a sq ft.
been in this business when the brush and paint was all there was....and iam talkin 1985-86 i did nothing for LESS THAN $7-10 a sq ft AND MY COST OF OPERATION was a couple cans of paint and some expensive brushes. just seems to me all thats transpired is the reducing of profit in exchange for some machine spittin out prints!!!!!!!

 

[player]

You may not save a whole lot of money, but the flexibility of having the printing in house would be nice. Not having to wait and be at the mercy of your printers, being able to correct mistakes at the last minute, experimenting with different products...

 

[Techman]

by getting pricing from others you can see trends in materials / products.

Has nothing to do with your price. Your prices must be predicated upon what you costs and needed profit.

Asking for pricing in a public forum opens every one up to broadcasting trade secrets. No one wants a client coming here and reading he just paid for something that others are selling for wholesale. There have been a few outsiders looking in and causing pain for members here. There are too many non-sign people looking to get their own machines thinking we are ripping them off.

 

[phototec]

Never said it was a slam dunk, also my client would only be me. Im attempting to reduce my overhead cost by printing in-house. That is why I'm looking for typical materials cost other than base raw material like sintra or gator. I need info out of my current scope i.e. ink, vinyl, paper, and whatever else.

Would you not agree that asking questions before jumping in would be less Goofy than not? Don't want to buy a 100k worth of equipment to save me nothing.

In any case, thanks to all of you for your help! Even the forum flamers.

Pricing is based on many things, shop overhead, utilities, wages, insurance, etc.

Can you tell us what your shop rent is?

What are your last month utility bills?

What do you charge as an hourly rate?

How much do you pay for insurance?

Is your cell phone for business ONLY, or do you share the cell phone for personal use?

 

[Fmeroney]

why are people so worried about sharing info. Im only looking for typical costs per sqft for printing, not including raw base material. Electricity can vary from region to region and so can other materials im sure. But again im really not looking for what you charge, only what it cost you. It sounds like most people have not done the actual calculation. This should be a simple set of numers in atleast an excel sheet.

see below for your answers.

Pricing is based on many things, shop overhead, utilities, wages, insurance, etc.

Can you tell us what your shop rent is? $0, i work for a large corporation and it is included in my budget center.

What are your last month utility bills? $0, see above.

What do you charge as an hourly rate? $0, see above, we are "budget center" so i do not make money for the company, only reduce it.

*** Right now I do not print in house so i have no numbers for that. But for sign making, i estimate $75 an hr per job for labor, then I add in material costs.

*** a typical Graphic, cut out and finshed, from a vendor will cost around $25 a sqft if i do the numbers.

How much do you pay for insurance? $0 see above.

Is your cell phone for business ONLY, or do you share the cell phone for personal use? I use 2 cell phones, 1 for business and my personal one. A bit of a hassle, but keep my personal calls off my employers dime.

 

[HDvinyl]

Do you show your customer what it costs you to build their trade show booth??

 

[rjssigns]

why are people so worried about sharing info. Im only looking for typical costs per sqft for printing, not including raw base material. Electricity can vary from region to region and so can other materials im sure. But again im really not looking for what you charge, only what it cost you. It sounds like most people have not done the actual calculation. This should be a simple set of numers in atleast an excel sheet.

see below for your answers.

To say no one on this forum has done cost/value/pricing calculations is absurd. At any rate you missed the point I was trying to make. Depending on where you are in the good ol' USA determines, to a large extent, what you have to charge to keep the doors swingin'. Clientele also plays a large part in pricing structure.

I'd be more than happy to share all the minute details of our pricing structure with you. Then sit back and watch you go out of business. What I can charge and live on in northern Wisconsin is far different than anywhere California.

Put simply you have to figure things out for yourself.

 

[bikecomedy]

why are people so worried about sharing info. Im only looking for typical costs per sqft for printing, not including raw base material. Electricity can vary from region to region and so can other materials im sure. But again im really not looking for what you charge, only what it cost you. It sounds like most people have not done the actual calculation. This should be a simple set of numers in atleast an excel sheet.

see below for your answers.

Why?

1. Anyone who actually runs a business would know to call the suppliers or their salesman. They would love to tell you this and sell you equipment.

2. Even a fifth grader knows that if you do it yourself as an amateur you can save yourself money, after you learn everything to know about the equipment, spend the time setting this all up and become proficient in producing the end product. However, in the mean time you will pay more.. a lot more.

3. You ignore quality answers and don't see that you have been helped.

4. You are insulting our intelligence and kindness.

5. You want us to do your work for you. Geez, more than one of us posted how you could do it for yourself! Not enough for you huh?

6. You accuse us of not helping out of fear when in fact you have been given quality answers and treated quite kindly.

7. You lie. First;" Looking for what you charge your client and what it costs you. That will give a potential margin that will tell me if its worth even exploring." Then later;"Im only looking for typical costs per sqft for printing, not including raw base material."

8. You're asking the wrong people.

Should I continue?

Read number one and get on the phone Monday morning. You'll have your answer by lunch.

 

[Biker Scout]

Price is such a touchy subject in here. But let's be fair... in all business there is a sort of wholesale/mark-up/retail relationship that goes on, and the end user / customer has come to expect. We all just "know" that when your heater or a/c goes out that your repairman is going to get the unit or parts at a steep discount, then turn around and charge you a percentage over and then some extra for the labor. We accept this. With the internet we as consumers can even find out how much that stuff costs if we really want to. But not all of us have the know-how/training/certification to install one. We just want it fixed and we allow the professional to do his job so we can be back to being comfortable.

But in "Signland" it's a bit different. And this is why I think so many in industry feel threatened. It's not as simple as just having the talent to move a paint brush, having some training and tutelage under a master anymore. Signage, Displays & Advertising can be as easy as just mimicking what you see with your eyes. There is software that makes it ever increasingly easy to do this. There is plenty of free information out there already on how to know how to do something. Wide format printers are already pretty familiar devices to anybody with a small format printer at home. (not saying they are as easy to set-up or profile, but give it enough time and that will change too) It really can be as simple as just having a bit of money on hand or good credit. Get a printer, get some software, go to YouTube, hire your nephew, whatever. You are in the business, and now a threat to the established people who have paid their dues.

Some of them real artists, with real talent. Some just really good businessmen who hire the talent and focus on running a successful business managing profit margins. Then there are people who fall in between. These are the ones who seem to get under everyone's skin the most. The lurkers. The price shoppers, the hagglers with deep pockets or the means to subvert the industry standard practices by doing themselves. And then when the get stuck, they hit the internet and seek out answers. They have no real talent... but they've got photoshop.

 

[Fmeroney]

Wow, thanks for the kindness..

1. I run a business, actually my team alone grossed over 25 million alone for the company, but like I said Im not a printer and was reaching out to this wonderful community. Calling suppliers and salesmen will give you one side of the equation, asking printers gives you the other.

2. Hopefully fifth graders can take into account the costs of in-house work vs. sub-contacting. Weight the row and cons., is the profit margin or in my case the savings worth the extra liability? Ok, maybe you were in fifth grade and knew that.

3. IS this not a subjective opinion, being help is only the case if I'm truly helped... How would you know if they answered my questions to my satisfaction?

4. One must have intelligence and kindness to insult, the fact you responded like this is the opposite of kindness and intelligence.

5. What is the point of the forum if not to ask questions? You can choose not to answer but you did. You did help me see what an arrogant person you are, thanks

6. Was this not the same as questions 3, 4, & 5? Try and sum up better. Think "Form over Function" what I mean is ask fewer quality questions and generate less fluff. This will help you become more successful as you grow.

7. WOAH, hold the phone biker comedy guy, Lie is a bold word, I clarified my statement. In american culture a Lie is when someone denies a fact, I didn't say that This was not true, just clarified my point... Yikes, btw don't treat customer and clients like this... bad mojo.

8. I'm asking the wrong people? well I guess you saying these people are not qualified printer and sign makers.... How dare you!!! I find these people on here charming! Also, a few people did IM me after you wrote this to apologize for your rude behavior... I accept.

9. Yes, continue...

10. Find me on FB, we can friend each other !

Why?

1. Anyone who actually runs a business would know to call the suppliers or their salesman. They would love to tell you this and sell you equipment.

2. Even a fifth grader knows that if you do it yourself as an amateur you can save yourself money, after you learn everything to know about the equipment, spend the time setting this all up and become proficient in producing the end product. However, in the mean time you will pay more.. a lot more.

3. You ignore quality answers and don't see that you have been helped.

4. You are insulting our intelligence and kindness.

5. You want us to do your work for you. Geez, more than one of us posted how you could do it for yourself! Not enough for you huh?

6. You accuse us of not helping out of fear when in fact you have been given quality answers and treated quite kindly.

7. You lie. First;" Looking for what you charge your client and what it costs you. That will give a potential margin that will tell me if its worth even exploring." Then later;"Im only looking for typical costs per sqft for printing, not including raw base material."

8. You're asking the wrong people.

Should I continue?

Read number one and get on the phone Monday morning. You'll have your answer by lunch.

 

[skyhigh]

I find these people on here charming! !

So nice of you to notice































.......of course, your not the first to tell me that

 

[bikecomedy]

Fmeroney,

Still don't like the help that's given to you.

Challenge...

Post the answer to your questions here when you figure them out. A response which anyone could appreciate. A true forum member is willing to post the answers for questions themselves asked when the forum does not answer them.

Regards.

 

[skyhigh]

There are currently 775 users online. 127 members and 648 guests

Not giving anyone a hard time....Perhaps just a little insight as to why he may not have gotten the most cheery and helpful response.

Many have a distaste for posting pricing in the open forum. "Sales, Marketing & Pricing" would have led to more helpful posts, and less snarky ones.


my 2 cents.

 

[Gino]

Wow, thanks for the kindness..

1. I run a business, actually my team alone grossed over 25 million alone for the company, but like I said Im not a printer and was reaching out to this wonderful community. Calling suppliers and salesmen will give you one side of the equation, asking printers gives you the other.

2. Hopefully fifth graders can take into account the costs of in-house work vs. sub-contacting. Weight the row and cons., is the profit margin or in my case the savings worth the extra liability? Ok, maybe you were in fifth grade and knew that.

3. IS this not a subjective opinion, being help is only the case if I'm truly helped... How would you know if they answered my questions to my satisfaction?

4. One must have intelligence and kindness to insult, the fact you responded like this is the opposite of kindness and intelligence.

5. What is the point of the forum if not to ask questions? You can choose not to answer but you did. You did help me see what an arrogant person you are, thanks

6. Was this not the same as questions 3, 4, & 5? Try and sum up better. Think "Form over Function" what I mean is ask fewer quality questions and generate less fluff. This will help you become more successful as you grow.

7. WOAH, hold the phone biker comedy guy, Lie is a bold word, I clarified my statement. In american culture a Lie is when someone denies a fact, I didn't say that This was not true, just clarified my point... Yikes, btw don't treat customer and clients like this... bad mojo.

8. I'm asking the wrong people? well I guess you saying these people are not qualified printer and sign makers.... How dare you!!! I find these people on here charming! Also, a few people did IM me after you wrote this to apologize for your rude behavior... I accept.

9. Yes, continue...

10. Find me on FB, we can friend each other !

Based on this information..... you're asking the wrong people.

Your number 2 already answers your own original question..... a 5th grader can figure this out, so then I presume, you should be able to figure out your situation.



If you read over your post here, it seems as if you want to control our answers, our thinking and our forum. If you have all these answers in addition to your original request, again, you don't need us.

I offered you a kind 'welcome' and I get bunched in with all your anger ?? Ya know, it's squirts like you throwing 25 million, team members and whatnot mumbo jumbo around.... that just make me laugh. :ROFLMAO:

You want help ?? Ask your 6th grade questions and stop trying to take control. No one likes a know-it-all who ain't got jack. Oh, and if ya still wanna just jump on in.... start spelling a little better. Your spelling s*cks for wanting to be in a communications industry !!
​

 

[the graphics co]

Just a thought, if your team is bringing in 25 million, you should have people on staff that are capable of determining pricing structures for printing based on what you have been paying, cost of materials, and labor rates. Stop wasting peoples time.

 

[Joe Diaz]

why are people so worried about sharing info.

We could ask you the same question. It's kind of hard to figure out what you should charge per Sq ft without knowing anything about your business including your overhead, your hourly rate etc... You're asking people to volunteer their business information. Why not tell us your's:

Pricing is based on many things, shop overhead, utilities, wages, insurance, etc.

Can you tell us what your shop rent is?

What are your last month utility bills?

What do you charge as an hourly rate?

How much do you pay for insurance?

Is your cell phone for business ONLY, or do you share the cell phone for personal use?

Add to that what type of materials are you planning on using and what are their costs?


Because like others have said, simply knowing what others charge is not going to help you be profitable. Let's say you knew what random sign makers from all over the globe charged. Since we are all different types of shops with vastly different overhead, if you adjusted your prices based on others' prices, and you have different overhead, material costs, a different market, etc... you could severely harm your bottom line. The advice you are getting may not be the answers you were looking for but they are the answers you need. You are going to be much better off if you develop your pricing based off of factors that are unique to your business. If you need help with that, Fred had an excellent post a year or so ago that explained step by step exactly how to do this. Perhaps someone can track that down and post it. Anyone remember that?

 

[Fred Weiss]

Fred had an excellent post a year or so ago that explained step by step exactly how to do this. Perhaps someone can track that down and post it. Anyone remember that?

It's a sticky in the Sales, Marketing and Pricing forum. Here's a link.