Startup Business QUESTIONS?!

[theycallmefolsom]

Little bit about my background. I have been an artist my whole life and received a degree in graphic design. After college got a job at a print production shop. Left that job for a real design job at a vehicle wrap and sign business. The shop was literally starting from the ground up. Taught myself how to use the shops Roland xr-640, how to design vehicle wraps and print them. Ended up becoming lead designer and project manager. However after a year of basically running a shop(accounting, sales, design, printing, managing), I still found myself wanting more. For one, I wasn't making enough money(like all small print shops the employees dont make much) and I new I could do better. I literally can do everything but wrap a vehicle(which I plan on learning).

Which brings me too today. Im looking at opening my own vehicle wrap sign shop. Specifically though vehicle wraps(I have seen alot of bad designs).

Question:
1. Am i jumping the gun? Is there anything more that I need to learn before opening a shop?
2. How easy is it to transition from roland equipment to HP?(tired of waiting for outgassing)
3. Can I lease a HP latex 330, laminator, plotter with 15-20k budget?

 

[TXFB.INS]

there are plenty of Merchant Vendors here that sale at a discounted price. instead of sicking you budget into the needed equipment (printer, lamination machine, plotter, etc...) focus on marketing, getting your name out and this will allow more time to sale and design. you get the material in then you stick it.

this coming from the guy still at work getting the printer ready for a run......

 

[rossmosh]

My opinion is:

1. You shouldn't open a vehicle wrap shop unless you know how to wrap or can partner with someone that can wrap. Day 1, when you open this new business, if I walk into your store and want a vehicle wrap, who's going to do it? Tomorrow you should walk into work and sit down with the bossman and say something along the lines of "I want to work with John wrapping a car. It's something I'm interested in learning." I'd say you should set a goal of when you do X number of cars, vans, trailers, ect that's when you're ready to open up your own shop.

2. The worst thing for a small business is to be under funded. New businesses don't make money for a while. It could be a year or so until you start making a profit. Based on your post, you're already tight on cash so I have concerns whether or not you'll be able to make it to the 18 month mark.

3. You can lease to buy. Typically it's the most expensive way to end up owning a machine. The benefit is it allows you to own a machine without taking away your working capital. The downside is after 3-5 years, you end up paying way more for the machine. If you're serious about opening a business, you need to walk into the bank and see what options they have for you.

 

[ams]

Take a wrap class. You need to get a sign contractor license and included will be business management.

 

[visual800]

You have got to wait your turn! Or you will find your a$$ standing in tons of depth with nothing around you. Go to work for another wrap shop, do your dues. This aint no AMTRAK quick ride to stardom. Things take time.

and when that time comes i would sub all prints out for a while before i jumped into my own printer

 

[d fleming]

Best way to make a small fortune in the sign biz is to start with a big one.

 

[BigfishDM]

Little bit about my background. I have been an artist my whole life and received a degree in graphic design. After college got a job at a print production shop. Left that job for a real design job at a vehicle wrap and sign business. The shop was literally starting from the ground up. Taught myself how to use the shops Roland xr-640, how to design vehicle wraps and print them. Ended up becoming lead designer and project manager. However after a year of basically running a shop(accounting, sales, design, printing, managing), I still found myself wanting more. For one, I wasn't making enough money(like all small print shops the employees dont make much) and I new I could do better. I literally can do everything but wrap a vehicle(which I plan on learning).

Which brings me too today. Im looking at opening my own vehicle wrap sign shop. Specifically though vehicle wraps(I have seen alot of bad designs).

Question:
1. Am i jumping the gun? Is there anything more that I need to learn before opening a shop?
2. How easy is it to transition from roland equipment to HP?(tired of waiting for outgassing)
3. Can I lease a HP latex 330, laminator, plotter with 15-20k budget?

Just keep doing kick *** designs and outsource the wraps to a professional installer, there are plenty of companies who can sell you printed and laminated 3M controltac for $5.00 a sq.ft. The wrap market is pretty saturated.

 

[Billct2]

I agree, if you can design great wraps and know how to set up the files outsource the printing & install.

 

[Gino]

Out of curiosity...... how many years do you have of hands-on learning or doing in an actual sign shop ??

No school or job hunting time allowed. Just actual working.

 

[OldPaint]

oh the youth of today))))))
NO 1. this business dont generate the money it once did. reason being anyone who can lease equipment can be in the business.............
NO 2. the reason it dont generate the money it once did is because YOU ARE MAKING MONEY for the people who sell you the PRINTER, INK, VINYL))))))))))
NO 3. a graphic design degree means nothing because most let their design work go CHEAP, to keep the printer running, so it dont break while you are making money to pay for the printer and supplies)))))
NO 4. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF ASKING FOR A RAISE....
GONE....... are the days of walking up to a stock car/store front window, with 4-5 cans of paint, a couple brushes and the ability to draw anything........throw some paint for 3-4 hours step back and see what you created......collect $300-500 dollars and only spent $10 in materials............now its printer, ink vinyl outa $300 job.........60% is for them.

 

[Zac]

I've been wrapping for years and would love to move to LA. Wink!

 

[theycallmefolsom]

You have got to wait your turn! Or you will find your a$$ standing in tons of depth with nothing around you. Go to work for another wrap shop, do your dues. This aint no AMTRAK quick ride to stardom. Things take time.

and when that time comes i would sub all prints out for a while before i jumped into my own printer

Ya I was thinking about getting more experience as well. So when I left my other job I applied for a bunch of other vehicle wrap positions thinking I was going to get more experience. I applied to about 5 vehicle wrap companies looking for designers and all 5 reached back to me within a day. I was thinking GREAT, I will learn more about the business and hopefully learn to wrap, increase my skills and get paid more. NOPE:

1. They didn't want to pay me what I am worth.
- 15 dollars an hour is nothing and it was what I was getting paid previously. Most of the people said they couldn't pay that on a full time basis. OR EVEN MORE.
- Quoted from The E Myth "By the lowest possible level of skill I mean the lowest possible level necessary to fulfill the functions for the job".
2. They wanted just a designer.
- I already know everything about the design process for signs, vehicle wraps ect.(remember I did 100% of the designing for a sign shop FOR A YEAR).
- I am not looking to just design.

Do sign shops fail, YES, BUT WHY?!?!
3. Yes the market is saturated(kinda) with plenty of COLOR CHANGE vehicle wrap shops. (believe me I have called around)
- Not a lot of shops have actual printers
- WHY IS THIS?
(a) They dont have the talent to use it
(b) its too expensive
- The last couple shops(interviews) I have walked into where opened by some idiots that no nothing about the printer/lam/file prep/design.
- I asked questions about THERE business and they didn't know the answers.(pretty sad if u ask me)
4. The reason that so many shops fail is because they dont set themselves up for success.
- Worst website known to man.
- Dont go door to door and actually talk to people.
- Dont pay for adwords.
- Dont have there personal vehicle wrapped(That actually looks good)
(a) How can u sell wraps if your vehicle looks horrible
- Dont handle enough of the business(hiring more help than necessary). To much overhead.
5. A design degree does mean something.
- It means that I can design better than the next guy.
- It means theres a purpose to everything I put on your vehicle.
- It means that this is my career and I go home every day drawing/designing/researching

DONT FORGET.
- I was the one on the computer ever day in the front office.
- I was in charge of the shop phone
(a) All incoming sales calls where answered by me
(b) All job inquiring
(c) All outgoing calls to notify clients of changes/problems/completions/payment....MEEEEEE
- I operated signvox/mhelpdesk every day among other job tracking software
- I worked with the clients one on one for every design i did in the shop
- I worked with installers and oversee installation for every wrap.
- ALSO all inventory purchases including contacting sales rep and vendors where ME.

Basically I ran a sign shop for a year without actually owning one.
So PLZ explain to me what my next logical step in this business would be if its not running a business. Why would I step back and take a one dimensional design job?!

 

[James Burke]

Next step: Read Michael Gerber's E-Myth Revisited for a much-needed solemn dose of reality. (I personally prefer listening to the audio book, though)

Regardless of what you're told, it all boils down to understanding what people want or need and then delivering the very best quality that their money can afford...while you continue to make a profit. Nothing more...nothing less.

Learn how to do that and you'll stay in business a long time.


JB

 

[signed off]

I don't see where you list quoting experience. how much would you charge for a wrap, how much is your material, how much is your over head, how much do you plan to make on each wrap.
If you have been doing all the "business up front" and now you are going to wrap, who is going to do all that you use to do.
If you decide to open be prepared to not go home even after years in the business, take a holiday and forget about sleep. It does have its +++++++ but it isn't all glitz and glitter

 

[theycallmefolsom]

My opinion is:

1. You shouldn't open a vehicle wrap shop unless you know how to wrap or can partner with someone that can wrap. Day 1, when you open this new business, if I walk into your store and want a vehicle wrap, who's going to do it? Tomorrow you should walk into work and sit down with the bossman and say something along the lines of "I want to work with John wrapping a car. It's something I'm interested in learning." I'd say you should set a goal of when you do X number of cars, vans, trailers, ect that's when you're ready to open up your own shop.

2. The worst thing for a small business is to be under funded. New businesses don't make money for a while. It could be a year or so until you start making a profit. Based on your post, you're already tight on cash so I have concerns whether or not you'll be able to make it to the 18 month mark.

3. You can lease to buy. Typically it's the most expensive way to end up owning a machine. The benefit is it allows you to own a machine without taking away your working capital. The downside is after 3-5 years, you end up paying way more for the machine. If you're serious about opening a business, you need to walk into the bank and see what options they have for you.

1. I completely agree, which is why I have put out an ad for vehicle wrap installers and have already received 4 replies in 2 days. I also plan on taking the oracle class.
- I wanted to learn how to wrap however most business owners I interviewed with dont want you to learn.
(a) There friends are the wrappers and dont want you to take there job.
(b) The wrappers themselves dont want to teach you because then you will take there job.(this was my problem at my previous position)

2. How much funding would it take?
- If i am going door-to-door how can I not get paying jobs?
- How many sign shops go door to door?
- What percentage just sit there and wait for people to call/walk in?

3. Yes it would cost more in the end but you can always pay it off earlier if you business is making money right.

 

[Gino]

Soooo...... how many years do you have under your belt in actual hands on paying jobs ?? And again, no school or job hunting counts. Just total time in this industry as a worker getting paid.

No matter what you think you're worth..... you're only gonna be worth that in your own head. A business-owner has a lot more to worry about, than someone who knows it all..... or thinks they do. You are a write off. You might be valuable or you might be a drain. We only have your side, so far. Heck, he's paying you right now, while you're on the internet surfing who knows what else and he's paying you..... or do you have that many breaks throughout the day ??

I can tell you, if you go into business for yourself, you sure better get a proof reader. ​

 

[theycallmefolsom]

Soooo...... how many years do you have under your belt in actual hands on paying jobs ?? And again, no school or job hunting counts. Just total time in this industry as a worker getting paid.

No matter what you think you're worth..... you're only gonna be worth that in your own head. A business-owner has a lot more to worry about, than someone who knows it all..... or thinks they do. You are a write off. You might be valuable or you might be a drain. We only have your side, so far. Heck, he's paying you right now, while you're on the internet surfing who knows what else and he's paying you..... or do you have that many breaks throughout the day ??

I can tell you, if you go into business for yourself, you sure better get a proof reader. ​

I have 2+ years in this industry. I left my previous job over a month ago to pursue other design opportunities(I am also not currently located in the same city as previous job). So nobody is paying me to write on this forum. I dont want to seem like a know-it-all im just stating what I did previously. NOW, if I did every aspect of running a shop at my previous job then im not a "know-it-all" but i am a "know-a-lot".

Im not sure what you mean by hands on paying jobs. Ill give you a scenario of what I did for the business::

1. Customer would call/walk in. Being the only guy in the front office I would greet him and ask "Welcome, How can I help you?!"
2. He would then explain he has a white sprinter van he wants wrapped for his plumbing business.
3. I would then walk out check out his van and run him through all the service we provide and what I could do to get this van looking sharp as can be.(about 30-45min conversation)
- conversation included his ideas and my design ideas/expertise.
4. He would usually be pretty excited and then ask how much.
5. I would then explain the price depends on material, design and installation however what we just discussed would be around $$$
6. he would then say thats a little expensive I was thinking about something near $$$
7. I would then explain that its not a problem and what we could do is a half wrap and some nicely placed die-cut decals.
8. I would also mention that some of the best wraps are half wraps, which is TRUE.(creating consumer confidence even though he cant afford a full wrap)
9. I would then go back inside and run the numbers(Try and close him on the spot for at-least a design deposit).
- Didn't always close however that was my goal and the expectations the owner had for me.
10. At the very least he would walk away with a competitive quote.
11. If we came to an agreement I would charge him for the design fee and write up an estimate for the final price.
12. Within the next day or two I would call him to come in and have a meeting to hash out design ideas.(sometimes a frustrating process)
13. After a few emails/moch-ups we agree on the final designs and I would have him come in and pay half the remaining balance.
14. I would then set-up files and notify installers when the vehicle would be scheduled.
15. Start printing sides of vehicles and decals.
16. Car comes in and installers start taking apart vehicle.
17. I would then give the installers the small moch-ups of all sides, walk them through any aspects of the design and what parts of the design had to be precise.
18. Call client and notify him that he can pick up vehicle.
19 client comes in usually pretty excited and I would chit chat and take remaining balance as well as send him final invoice receipt.

 

[Gino]

I hate to break this to ya, but based on what you just said...... you didn't say anything to me that screams $15 bucks an hour. Nope, sorry.

Hands on experience means how much time have you spent actually working in this business..... the sign business, not going to school to learn, not talking to your bros at the local tavern, not looking in a store window watching some guy put some gold leaf on the glass.

Anyway, let's just say, you have what it takes to be an up-front person/counter person and you know how to quote. As for your designs, I have no idea at all what you're capable of, so suffice it to say, you are in the $10 to $12 range. You can't install, but you can probably weed, but so can a monkey. That takes about 10 minutes to learn and another 1/2 hour to get good at it. You already said you can't do wraps. Your previous co-workers wouldn't teach you, which is hard to believe, unless you were around them the way you've been around here......

I would certainly suggest to you, before you decide to put a business together to put a business plan together, figure out your short comings and figure out what equipment you need, what you can sub out and where your strengths are and what are your weaknesses and be honest. Lying to yourself will only hurt you. See if you can go it alone, cause paying someone to do nothing in the beginning can be a real drag on your wallet.

 

[theycallmefolsom]

I hate to break this to ya, but based on what you just said...... you didn't say anything to me that screams $15 bucks an hour. Nope, sorry.

Hands on experience means how much time have you spent actually working in this business..... the sign business, not going to school to learn, not talking to your bros at the local tavern, not looking in a store window watching some guy put some gold leaf on the glass.

Anyway, let's just say, you have what it takes to be an up-front person/counter person and you know how to quote. As for your designs, I have no idea at all what you're capable of, so suffice it to say, you are in the $10 to $12 range. You can't install, but you can probably weed, but so can a monkey. That takes about 10 minutes to learn and another 1/2 hour to get good at it. You already said you can't do wraps. Your previous co-workers wouldn't teach you, which is hard to believe, unless you were around them the way you've been around here......

I would certainly suggest to you, before you decide to put a business together to put a business plan together, figure out your short comings and figure out what equipment you need, what you can sub out and where your strengths are and what are your weaknesses and be honest. Lying to yourself will only hurt you. See if you can go it alone, cause paying someone to do nothing in the beginning can be a real drag on your wallet.

Like I said Previously I have worked 2-3 years FULL TIME(40 hours a week) at Two large format printing "small-businesses". I am not including school, or personal tinkering, or youtube videos, or talking to bros. I have no idea where that came from. The list I just provided was a basic scenario of ONE example. I am just talking about vinyl application signs (uni-vision, decals, full wraps, stickers). I am not trying to do neon-signs or metals signs or anything like that.

I was taking projects from start to finish.
What would qualify somebody to be worth 15+ in your opinion?

 

[klingsdesigns]

Like I said Previously I have worked 2-3 years FULL TIME(40 hours a week) at Two large format printing "small-businesses". I am not including school, or personal tinkering, or youtube videos, or talking to bros. I have no idea where that came from. The list I just provided was a basic scenario of ONE example. I am just talking about vinyl application signs (uni-vision, decals, full wraps, stickers). I am not trying to do neon-signs or metals signs or anything like that.

I was taking projects from start to finish.
What would qualify somebody to be worth 15+ in your opinion?

I have owned my own sign business for over 10 years and I probably don't even make $15 an hour. Before you go out on your own I would definitely try and work for someone and do the wraps/installs. Owning a business is pretty much owning two. The business part then the actual working part of it.