mark galoob
New Member
nothing like putting your balls on the chopping block to find out if you have the stones to be in business.
good luck to you.
good luck to you.
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Startup Business QUESTIONS?!
- Thread starter theycallmefolsom
- Start date
coastguy111
New Member
Going into business is a risk no matter what your experience. I would suggest staying lean...meaning that you outsource to contractors when you have to rather than hire an employee. Example would be to outsource the install of a vehicle wrap job you sell. reason being is that while they are installing, you can use the time to market and get more sales. You don't need a shop starting out. For around $200 you can buy one of those large tents like they use in outdoor weddings etc. That would allow you to be mobile also and some customers might like the fact that you are doing the install at their location.
just my 2cents
just my 2cents
K
kristenpitts77
Guest
After reading every post, I am still waiting for someone to learn the difference between they're, their and there. Because it was wrong in every instance of using the three different words.
dale911
President
This has been quite the interesting thread. Generally, I find Sings101 to be one of the more negative forums I have read and been a part of, but if you need help, these guys are here and will help with any info they can provide. I have my own business inside of a fantastic 40'x24' shop....behind my house. I was a cop for 15 years while being an entrepreneur. Some of the businesses I started up were better than others. Some I sold, some I tired of. I got into the sign business because I kept needing so much signage that I bought my own vinyl cutter years ago so save on signage costs and became fascinated with it. I started placing Craigslist ads for signage and then started needing prints. I outsourced them at first and then decided I would make a fortune if I bought a printer and started doing vehicle wraps. Guess what? Vehicle wrap market is pretty saturated, especially in Indy. I went to classes and learned install on my own but found that I don't care much for the install part. I don't care much for the design part either. My passion happens to fall in the prep and production of the graphics. My wife and I decided it was time to get out of police work so a year ago, I quit to work for myself. I only do wholesale printing to the trade now with not only wide format printing, but have also added screen printing, direct to garment printing and embroidery. Quite the investment and everything was paid in cash from profits of my real estate investing. Even with almost 0 overhead, I don't make much right now. I have taken my time to work out all the kinks before seeking additional clients. I have several small shops that use me exclusively for their printing. Even after owning a printer for 4 years and printing with it several hours a day for the last year and a half, the amount of waste in prints is crazy and thankfully I am extremely technical minded and can fix just about any problem that comes up. Printers are beasts that sometimes wake up having a bad day. Other days they are your best friend. Head strikes, nozzles not firing, PMS matching not quite spot on, the media acting up, problems with waste ink draining...the list goes on and on. Then, once you have a good print, it's over to the laminator. As much as I would like to Office Space that laminator into a dark place of death (Royal Sovereign cold laminator) I have to use it and it will take a beautiful print and destroy it...then back to the printer again. A $65 tension meter from tech support has allowed me to adjust the pressure on the rollers so that we have a lot more better days than bad days, but there are still bad days.
That being said, I love what I do and hope that soon, my wife will not be the primary bread winner. Thankfully she is a beautiful woman who has a fantastic degree in science that makes much more than I did as a cop and loves that I can work from home now, but when you work your *** off all day to break even and then a little change, it is more stressful than you know. Imagine having all your home bills on top of it. I am lucky that at 38 year old, I can follow my passion and build my business with cash from my real estate investments and don't have to worry about electric and a house payment. (our vehicles were all bought with cash as well so I don't have that over my head) You are obviously young and I commend you on having the entrepreneurial spirit. You can take that and potentially change the world, but take your time with it. Learn everything you can about everything. I spent 15 years in police work talking to people. Some of the best conversations I had with people were asking them about what they do and how they got there and I learned so much from it. Within the next few months, I'm going to build onto my building another 600 sq feet and move design and printing into that space and leave the bigger space for the new CNC router we are getting and hopefully a nice used flatbed printer. In a couple years, we should be at a point of being in a small commercial space. If I had to do this from day one with money in the bank to start the business, work in it and pay my home bills, I would have easily needed $60k to $100k. Follow your dreams, fulfill your passion, but do it with your eyes open and with knowledge that will help take you to the next level. You can learn something from anyone. Even some of the guys on here. They may sound rude or insensitive, but someone who is 70 has been around about 3 times longer and while I don't know diddly about painting on windows, I have a lot of respect for the talent and time it took to master the skill that I can now print in about 5 minutes and stick in 3 today. We wouldn't be doing what we are doing today if it wasn't for the people who have not only been there, done that, but also offer to pass on their knowledge. While I suggest that you take some more time getting experience in other shops and learning more about the labor portions of the business, I wish you luck in whatever you end up doing.
That being said, I love what I do and hope that soon, my wife will not be the primary bread winner. Thankfully she is a beautiful woman who has a fantastic degree in science that makes much more than I did as a cop and loves that I can work from home now, but when you work your *** off all day to break even and then a little change, it is more stressful than you know. Imagine having all your home bills on top of it. I am lucky that at 38 year old, I can follow my passion and build my business with cash from my real estate investments and don't have to worry about electric and a house payment. (our vehicles were all bought with cash as well so I don't have that over my head) You are obviously young and I commend you on having the entrepreneurial spirit. You can take that and potentially change the world, but take your time with it. Learn everything you can about everything. I spent 15 years in police work talking to people. Some of the best conversations I had with people were asking them about what they do and how they got there and I learned so much from it. Within the next few months, I'm going to build onto my building another 600 sq feet and move design and printing into that space and leave the bigger space for the new CNC router we are getting and hopefully a nice used flatbed printer. In a couple years, we should be at a point of being in a small commercial space. If I had to do this from day one with money in the bank to start the business, work in it and pay my home bills, I would have easily needed $60k to $100k. Follow your dreams, fulfill your passion, but do it with your eyes open and with knowledge that will help take you to the next level. You can learn something from anyone. Even some of the guys on here. They may sound rude or insensitive, but someone who is 70 has been around about 3 times longer and while I don't know diddly about painting on windows, I have a lot of respect for the talent and time it took to master the skill that I can now print in about 5 minutes and stick in 3 today. We wouldn't be doing what we are doing today if it wasn't for the people who have not only been there, done that, but also offer to pass on their knowledge. While I suggest that you take some more time getting experience in other shops and learning more about the labor portions of the business, I wish you luck in whatever you end up doing.
spectrum maine
New Member
Keep it small-keep it all
I have been in this business for 30 years. Been in all phases of design, fabrication, installation. my shop is on a busy road that has 12-19000 cars a day drive by. The business (especially the vinyl end) is so much more cut throat now than its ever been. my overhead is very low (own everything - boom truck w/ welder, 54" printer / laminator, 5' by 10 ' cnc router, full metal work area, paint booth etc...all owned outright) The hardest part is the "wal mart" mentality of expecting something tomorrow. The second hardest part is qualified help. Slinging vinyl is a very small part of the skill-set required to perform 100% in my shop. I have a person in my shop who has worked part time for 7 years doing mostly vinyl work (& some bookeeping) that has just recently become a "journeyman" at vinyl. so your 2 years " i know everything i need to know" is blatantly nieve. the market conditions are horrible in the quickie stick game. without my router & the dimensional work it produces, i would have thrown in the hat years ago.
In 1986 a set of magnetics went for a $100 a pair, i have a competitor who does them for $60 now. i still have trouble getting 100$ a pair. if i was chasing $$$ i would become a production manager or installer for a big shop. i will never make that kind of money working for myself. ****- i could go sling burgers for what i actually make here most days. price has become the deciding factor in 75% of the typical work. i refuse to whore my work, quality & reputation out for no profit. Much of my competition will sell for less than 50% of the prices in the signwriters pricing guide, (dont have one?) do yourself a favor & buy a current signwriters pricing guide & sell for at least 80% of what they recommend.Mystery shop your competition & find out how low they are selling stuff. i dont need to because i get the feedback directly from my walk ins. every market is different & if there is 6 shops within 10 miles you better be "awesome" at something other than cheap stickers.
I have been in this business for 30 years. Been in all phases of design, fabrication, installation. my shop is on a busy road that has 12-19000 cars a day drive by. The business (especially the vinyl end) is so much more cut throat now than its ever been. my overhead is very low (own everything - boom truck w/ welder, 54" printer / laminator, 5' by 10 ' cnc router, full metal work area, paint booth etc...all owned outright) The hardest part is the "wal mart" mentality of expecting something tomorrow. The second hardest part is qualified help. Slinging vinyl is a very small part of the skill-set required to perform 100% in my shop. I have a person in my shop who has worked part time for 7 years doing mostly vinyl work (& some bookeeping) that has just recently become a "journeyman" at vinyl. so your 2 years " i know everything i need to know" is blatantly nieve. the market conditions are horrible in the quickie stick game. without my router & the dimensional work it produces, i would have thrown in the hat years ago.
In 1986 a set of magnetics went for a $100 a pair, i have a competitor who does them for $60 now. i still have trouble getting 100$ a pair. if i was chasing $$$ i would become a production manager or installer for a big shop. i will never make that kind of money working for myself. ****- i could go sling burgers for what i actually make here most days. price has become the deciding factor in 75% of the typical work. i refuse to whore my work, quality & reputation out for no profit. Much of my competition will sell for less than 50% of the prices in the signwriters pricing guide, (dont have one?) do yourself a favor & buy a current signwriters pricing guide & sell for at least 80% of what they recommend.Mystery shop your competition & find out how low they are selling stuff. i dont need to because i get the feedback directly from my walk ins. every market is different & if there is 6 shops within 10 miles you better be "awesome" at something other than cheap stickers.
Quote: "after a year of basically running a shop(accounting, sales, design, printing, managing), I still found myself wanting more. For one, I wasn't making enough money(like all small print shops the employees dont make much) and I new I could do better. I literally can do everything but wrap a vehicle(which I plan on learning)."
OP, since you are doing accounting, do you know how much your owner made that year? What are these numbers: Gross sales, cost of goods, gross profit, expenses, and net profit(after paying you)?
Have you increased sales and owner's profit since you started?
I will suggest you make a deal with the owner, (with no cash investment of your own), put all your big ideas to test, grow the business, keep your $15/hr wage, then any increase of net profit, you got to keep 50%.
OP, since you are doing accounting, do you know how much your owner made that year? What are these numbers: Gross sales, cost of goods, gross profit, expenses, and net profit(after paying you)?
Have you increased sales and owner's profit since you started?
I will suggest you make a deal with the owner, (with no cash investment of your own), put all your big ideas to test, grow the business, keep your $15/hr wage, then any increase of net profit, you got to keep 50%.
if you can afford to open your own shop and possibly be without real income for the next year or two, i say go for it!
i don't think many of us sign shop owners are living wild extravagant lives with all the dough we're raking in. If you want to make tons of money, working at a sign shop probably isn't' going to get you there. And if you think you want to own the business because you'll make more money, well, good luck.
i don't think many of us sign shop owners are living wild extravagant lives with all the dough we're raking in. If you want to make tons of money, working at a sign shop probably isn't' going to get you there. And if you think you want to own the business because you'll make more money, well, good luck.