SUMMA D140R - I need serious help.

[Goatshaver]

I have a Summa cutter. It's an older model: D140 that I got close to 20 years ago. It's still working reasonably well after all these years and I've NEVER changed the cutting strip. However, I rarely (almost never) cut all the way through anything. I always kiss cut. So I would suspect that you're wearing out the cutting strips with the heavy volume of decals that you're cutting completely through. Probably the same is true with the blades. Cutting through the paper liner is tougher on the blade than cutting the vinyl.

I've been using Clean Cut Blades for the past 4-5 years without issue, so I don't think you're having an issue caused by not using Summa blades.

I don't know about the others here, but I would consider 30K decals in 7 days to be a high volume for a plotter to handle. If you do the math, you're cutting 9 DECALS PER MINUTE NON-STOP FOR 8 HOURS PER DAY.

I have an old school steel rule die cutting machine. For that kind of volume I would have a steel rule die made and cut the decals out on a die cutting machine.... or sub it out to a local die cutter. This assumes that you're making large quantities of identical decals. Just my opinion, but I don't think a roll fed plotter is the correct machine to be using to mass produce decals that are not just kiss cut.

Ok. I'm not going completely crazy then. Most of the weren't individual flex cut items. The majority of the 30k were kiss cuts but then I flex cut out the larger portions. (ie 20 labels per sheet) I do a fair bit of die cut stickers though it's usually like 200-500 per order most of the time. This volume was unusually high for me it's usually more close to the 5k-10k total per week for pieces.

The more I get into this is feel like this was not the right choice for me and I'm starting to get really pissed about this. I made it very clear that I do a lot of die cut stickers when I was buying this and was told I'd have no problems. I certainly cannot afford a $60k flatbed cutter.

 

[pkeshtgani]

This happened to me once. Than I realized the software (Cutserver) was over riding the values that are on the machine. Try that?

 

[Goatshaver]

This happened to me once. Than I realized the software (Cutserver) was over riding the values that are on the machine. Try that?

I've gone through all of that to make sure the software wasn't overriding the machine settings.

I feel like I should've gotten a graphtec because they have the cut channel for exactly this kind of stuff. Or would an S2 T work in doing a lot of die cut stickers? I've got to do something because I cannot toss a new blade in this every 3-4 days.

 

[digitalartist71]

Since brand new cutter, I seriously doubt it's your cutting strip or the machine itself. The blade needs to be placed in the blade holder itself. Pushed all the way in bottoming it out, then turn screw adjustment knob until blade starts to poke out and can feel it with your fingertip. That's it. Then make sure your settings, mainly pressure are correct. You can try default also then cut a test while in there. Then adjust pressure from there on.

The blades last quite a long time. Unless cutting lots of reflective of course, but just the usual vinyl should last you a good long while before changing blades. Year or so even. I'd use Summa blades too, but still shouldn't be an issue, unless the blades you get elsewhere are just garbage. But still should be fine.

You'll find in the end, its more than likely user error as Summa machines are the absolute best... they are sheer workhorses. I wouldn't get too frustrated with what you purchased as you'll find you made a wise choice later once you get over this small basic hurdle. Graphic are great also...but both Summa and Graphtec are considered the best... i personally prefer the Summas.

I would have purchased direct from Summa as they are great help.. but I guess when you buy through elsewhere... then may have to deal with them. : /

I'd keep in mind, if all the standard things are not working, you could very well have a defective machine or cutting head etc. Cutting head might need calibrated etc if you run out of options.

 

[digitalartist71]

because I cannot toss a new blade in this every 3-4 days.

Should never have to do that. Unless cutting lots of metal reflective.

 

[Goatshaver]

Since brand new cutter, I seriously doubt it's your cutting strip or the machine itself. The blade needs to be placed in the blade holder itself. Pushed all the way in bottoming it out, then turn screw adjustment knob until blade starts to poke out and can feel it with your fingertip. That's it. Then make sure your settings, mainly pressure are correct. You can try default also then cut a test while in there. Then adjust pressure from there on.

The blades last quite a long time. Unless cutting lots of reflective of course, but just the usual vinyl should last you a good long while before changing blades. Year or so even. I'd use Summa blades too, but still shouldn't be an issue, unless the blades you get elsewhere are just garbage. But still should be fine.

You'll find in the end, its more than likely user error as Summa machines are the absolute best... they are sheer workhorses. I wouldn't get too frustrated with what you purchased as you'll find you made a wise choice later once you get over this small basic hurdle. Graphic are great also...but both Summa and Graphtec are considered the best... i personally prefer the Summas.

I would have purchased direct from Summa as they are great help.. but I guess when you buy through elsewhere... then may have to deal with them. : /

I'd keep in mind, if all the standard things are not working, you could very well have a defective machine or cutting head etc. Cutting head might need calibrated etc if you run out of options.

But do you do a lot of cutting through the backing material on your materials? That's where my issue seems to be with the cutting through.

 

[Goatshaver]

I just feel like I was lead in the wrong direction for this cutter. They said I shouldn't have any problems doing full cut (die cut) stickers like I had been doing on my Roland. Obviously it's not meant to do them and if you do then you need to make sure your blade is very sharp and dialed in, which after a little bit of cutting flexcuts I'll be changing a blade every 4-5days depending on types of cuts and volume. Just feel like this wasn't the right machine for me. I need to find out if the S2 T will be the one I need for doing this kind of work or not. So feedback with those that have the S2 T models please I'd appreciate your input.

 

[rjssigns]

I just feel like I was lead in the wrong direction for this cutter. They said I shouldn't have any problems doing full cut (die cut) stickers like I had been doing on my Roland. Obviously it's not meant to do them and if you do then you need to make sure your blade is very sharp and dialed in, which after a little bit of cutting flexcuts I'll be changing a blade every 4-5days depending on types of cuts and volume. Just feel like this wasn't the right machine for me. I need to find out if the S2 T will be the one I need for doing this kind of work or not. So feedback with those that have the S2 T models please I'd appreciate your input.

Wow that's a lot of cutting! Not sure any plotter is made for those kinds of numbers. If I was doing that kind of volume on a regular basis I would have gotten a digital label press with laser cut, auto-weed and rewind. Expensive, but made for high production with very little human interaction.

 

[Goatshaver]

Wow that's a lot of cutting! Not sure any plotter is made for those kinds of numbers. If I was doing that kind of volume on a regular basis I would have gotten a digital label press with laser cut, auto-weed and rewind. Expensive, but made for high production with very little human interaction.

That's pretty rare I do that high of numbers in a week. Just kinda all hit at once in that week. Usually I'm doing 3-5k pieces a week at most, which I don't feel is high production. But I don't know what kinds of numbers other people do in this kind of work. My background is from large commercial offset printing production so 30k is not a high number for that realm.

 

[pkeshtgani]

I've gone through all of that to make sure the software wasn't overriding the machine settings.

I feel like I should've gotten a graphtec because they have the cut channel for exactly this kind of stuff. Or would an S2 T work in doing a lot of die cut stickers? I've got to do something because I cannot toss a new blade in this every 3-4 days.

Okay. I used to have Summa Cut series and we switched to S2T series. it makes a huge difference between drag knife and tangential. Drag knives tend to get dull faster because they are being dragged on the material. Unlike the tangential where is motorized. But that all depends on how how much volume you really are doing. are you changing after 1000sqft or 10,000 sqft? Whats important to get the right amount of pressure + how much of the blade is out. Also what are you exactly cutting?

 

[Goatshaver]

Okay. I used to have Summa Cut series and we switched to S2T series. it makes a huge difference between drag knife and tangential. Drag knives tend to get dull faster because they are being dragged on the material. Unlike the tangential where is motorized. But that all depends on how how much volume you really are doing. are you changing after 1000sqft or 10,000 sqft? Whats important to get the right amount of pressure + how much of the blade is out. Also what are you exactly cutting?

Yeah see I think it's wearing out faster because of volume and I think the tangential would help. Regular cuts are fine...I've got no issue with just a regular kiss cut. I haven't had it that long, but my blade definitely got switched around the 1000sq ft mark. I've tried several depths and pressures going as minimal as I could recently with a new blade. I'm cutting 3.4mil vinyl with a 3mil overlam. Plus cutting through the backer material. I just think I probably need a more robust machine.

 

[motioneffects]

I just feel like I was lead in the wrong direction for this cutter. They said I shouldn't have any problems doing full cut (die cut) stickers like I had been doing on my Roland. Obviously it's not meant to do them and if you do then you need to make sure your blade is very sharp and dialed in, which after a little bit of cutting flexcuts I'll be changing a blade every 4-5days depending on types of cuts and volume. Just feel like this wasn't the right machine for me. I need to find out if the S2 T will be the one I need for doing this kind of work or not. So feedback with those that have the S2 T models please I'd appreciate your input.

You will be in the same boat if you get a S2T. Base on what you said, I think the cutting strip is due for a replacement. Like others have mention in the post, you may want to look at a flat bed cutter or Graphtec FC if you do that much "Die Cut" stickers since they have a channel specifically for that.

Seems like Diecutstickers.com are running all Graphtec FC probably because they have a dedicated cut channel.

 

[Goatshaver]

You will be in the same boat if you get a S2T. Base on what you said, I think the cutting strip is due for a replacement. Like others have mention in the post, you may want to look at a flat bed cutter or Graphtec FC if you do that much "Die Cut" stickers since they have a channel specifically for that.

Seems like Diecutstickers.com are running all Graphtec FC probably because they have a dedicated cut channel.

Yes probably the strip needs replacing. I definitely don't have cash available for a $60k flatbed but I wish I would've looked at the Graphtec cutters because I think that would've been the option I need for what I do. I'm going to look into seeing if I can get rid of this machine. I've had it for less than 3 months now so it hasn't had that much use. I'm just disappointed I wasn't steered in that direction by salespeople.

 

[White Haus]

Yes probably the strip needs replacing. I definitely don't have cash available for a $60k flatbed but I wish I would've looked at the Graphtec cutters because I think that would've been the option I need for what I do. I'm going to look into seeing if I can get rid of this machine. I've had it for less than 3 months now so it hasn't had that much use. I'm just disappointed I wasn't steered in that direction by salespeople. This might just royally screw me over.

I don't mean any offense with this, but if stepping up to a more powerful plotter will royally screw you over, are you maybe not making enough profit off those large jobs? Seems to me if I was cranking thousands of decals out a week having to invest into the proper equipment wouldn't be an issue.

Again, not trying to bust your chops and I feel your pain regarding being sold equipment that doesn't do what you need it to do. I sincerely hope you get this all sorted out, and that maybe your dealer steps up to the plate and works out a deal with you since they mislead you on this unit's capabilities.

 

[Goatshaver]

I don't mean any offense with this, but if stepping up to a more powerful plotter will royally screw you over, are you maybe not making enough profit off those large jobs? Seems to me if I was cranking thousands of decals out a week having to invest into the proper equipment wouldn't be an issue.

Again, not trying to bust your chops and I feel your pain regarding being sold equipment that doesn't do what you need it to do. I sincerely hope you get this all sorted out, and that maybe your dealer steps up to the plate and works out a deal with you since they mislead you on this unit's capabilities.

What I meant is that I can't afford to keep this and buy a new machine. Its just got me stressed out and finishing jobs more difficult and taking longer. My hope is that I can work something out to get back on track because I'm certain it's worth the upgrade. My entire goal was to have a machine where I didn't have to worry about cuts drifting and a little more automation.

 

[White Haus]

What I meant is that I can't afford to keep this and buy a new machine. Its just got me stressed out and finishing jobs more difficult and taking longer. My hope is that I can work something out to get back on track because I'm certain it's worth the upgrade. My entire goal was to have a machine where I didn't have to worry about cuts drifting and a little more automation.

Yeah, I hear ya. Nothing worse than investing money into equipment only to find out it isn't all it was made out to be. We bought an older S140T a while back and haven't had a change to play much with the flex cut, but seems like they're very capable machines. Definitely a lot more rebust than an old SummaCut/D series we have. We're now looking into a F series flatbed to do our die cutting, among other things.
Hopefully your dealer, or someone from Summa can help identify what your ideal workflow/equipment would look like. This way you don't get let down again.

 

[pkeshtgani]

Yeah see I think it's wearing out faster because of volume and I think the tangential would help. Regular cuts are fine...I've got no issue with just a regular kiss cut. I haven't had it that long, but my blade definitely got switched around the 1000sq ft mark. I've tried several depths and pressures going as minimal as I could recently with a new blade. I'm cutting 3.4mil vinyl with a 3mil overlam. Plus cutting through the backer material. I just think I probably need a more robust machine.

sorry for the late reply. okay that gives more details. Yes you will kill through blades if you are cutting through the backer! whether you got Graphtec or summa S2T series (others might disagree with me). they are meant to do that but not a lot. sometimes it would be best to outsource the job to label printing companies. I had to do a job (remember this is on S2T seris) where we print, laminate, cut contour, roll back and score the back at 2" intervals! that was about half a roll and we pretty much killed one blade with it. that being said. honestly its better you do all that with a flatbed cutter. they are more robust to handle more production. that doesn't mean you can't do it but you need to consider the cost of your blade every time you take one of these jobs.

with that, all being said! what you can do is also decrease the number of the score lines is putting. it's on Summa Cutter Control setting. its called the "cut length" for full and flex. that would use the blade too.

Hope this helps you!

 

[Goatshaver]

So I'm defintely going to need to upgrade my machine, I've been told by a few people that the S2 T will be much better but it's not perfect for die cuts, obviously a flatbed would be ideal but I cannot afford 50-60k cutter. So my next best options are the Summa S2 T or the GraphTec FC9000. Everyone is leaning towards the Summa. I just want to make sure I'm going to have something I won't struggle to get decent die cuts out of every single sheet I cut.

Really wish I could see both of these machines in operation doing these cuts.

 

[pkeshtgani]

I think right now Summa has a promotion that you pay the price for S2D and but you get S2T check with your dealer!

 

[ikarasu]

If youre doing that many cut throughs why go with a summa? The cutting strips on these machines need to stay flat and even or you'll get spots that don't cut through properly. I know the summa has a stronger strip than a graphtec.... But if you're cutting through so much... Your strip is going to constantly need replacing.

We do roughly 30,000 decals a month on our graphtec and no issues...all perf cut.


Keep in mind paper dulls blades really quickly. So cutting through paper you'll go through quite a bit of blades. We use cheap $1 blades for our perf cutting... They last a week or so at the above volume, but at a buck a blade it doesn't break the bank.


I don't have a summa, and I have very little experience with them. Each machines have their benefits... But I believe at this volume.... Perf cutting via a Channel and not destroying your strip is likely the best option. Bring some material to your dealer and see how the graphtec cuts though. With the benefit of the channel... Comes some downfalls. You have to swap blade positions... And it is a bit slower at perf cutting. But we can load a roll on ours, send the whole roll through with the press of a button to do a kiss cut.. Swap it around and send the whole roll again to do perf cuts. It takes maybe 15 mins of manhours a day to cut a whole roll kiss and perf.