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Taking delivery of our new Summa F1612 next week, what else should I know?

Discussion in 'Summa' started by FatCat, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    As the title says, after looking for roughly 2 years for a cutting table I pulled the trigger and took advantage of the show special for the F1612 Phil Johnson listed here for Signs101 people. (Thank you Phil for all your help.)

    We have ours pretty well loaded, (kiss cut tool, double edge cutout, electronic oscillating tool, router, drag knife module, catch basket and ADC) really couldn't think of anything else we would need for typical work. (We don't currently do any packaging, so didn't see any pressing need for the crease wheels or angle cut blades.)

    Planning to install this next to a back wall leaving plenty of clearance front and back to feed boards. We don't have 3-phase here in our building, so purchased a phase convertor my electrician will be hooking up in the next week. Then once that is done, Summa will send out a tech to finish the install and do training.

    Just looking for feedback from current users on anything I need to bring up, discuss, etc. with the installer... Anything you wished you figured out, etc. while they were there? Any other tools you think we might need from the list above? Again, for the folks that have already been down this road - just looking for any helpful advice on anything we might overlook.

    Thank you in advance!
     
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  2. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Nobody willing to share anything on this?

    OK, how about help or assistance in regards to pricing work done with this machine. (And this can go for anyone with a cutting table like a Zund or Esko as well). How do you figure cost on cutting with this table, by the hour, per job, etc? Still not sure how best to account for time and costs with a machine like this - would really appreciate any help or feedback.
     
  3. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    I can't help you with any Summa F related questions as we don't have one yet... But I can tell you our pricing for cnc finishing is ever evolving. We price based on actual time consumption history converted to a weighted sqft price. This allows us to quickly price projects with out needing to simulate time use, but it's not perfect and we reevaluate our actuals periodically.
     
  4. greysquirrel

    greysquirrel Active Member

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    if you plan to cut .040 aluminum or wood frequently you should spend the extra dough on the HF router...the press is no more than a dremel.
    I hear the newer version of software is much better. Very reliable, accurate and fast cutting of roll goods.
     
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  5. greysquirrel

    greysquirrel Active Member

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    let me restate that...I actually love the product. Its more of a finishing device than an actual router. It can rout everything...just needs to be in multiple passes for cut quality.
    The rotary converter is the way to go...I bought mine from American Rotary when I installed my R-series. I have buyers regret on it though...I should have purchased a larger unit to be able to drive a Summa as well...
     
  6. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    We already have a standard 4x8 CNC router and plan to keep the more difficult to cut materials on it. The summa will be more for softer sheet goods and roll stocks like posters and banners.
     
  7. Technician

    Technician Drive it hard

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    congratulations to your new machine.
    I’m assuming it will be delivered with GoProduce software if not you should insist to get it. If you going to install it with the safety beams you must plan for space for that.
     
  8. FireSprint.com

    FireSprint.com Wholesale Screen & Digital Sign Printing

    Pricing out cutting on a table is a very challenging thing to do. We bill by estimated average hour on our Zund. You win some and you lose some. If you have a very large job, we can plug in the file and get an estimated cutting time.
     
  9. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    We have a 1612.

    It's ok. You have to go into it knowing it's an very entry level machine. Does a good job for the price point. Lots of manual setup, summaflex has a lot of bugs, since it's new. Airmark has a good team that always helps when they can. We use it 8 hrs a day, and it saves us a ton of time, but again - entry level...
    we don't use the double edge tool ever, basket is a waste, we use drag knife, HD knife, and kiss cut mostly.
     
  10. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Yes, I am pretty certain we are getting the GoProduce software. (Our rep had mentioned that the software had all the tools dialed in for the types of materials being cut, and already had suggested speeds and feed rates built in.) No safety beams - just didn't think they were necessary and plus we are cramped on space here as it is.
     
  11. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Sorry to hear you don't like SummaFlex - as I mentioned above the new GoProduce software is what should be coming with our machine. Also, I did get the ADC installed which will automatically set the cut depth for whatever tool we use, which should speed setup along even further. I realize we have to change between tools for different jobs, but to my understanding the same thing applies to a Zund or Esko. FWIW - we're not a huge production shop and probably won't be running this thing 8 hours a day every day, but I figured this was a safer bet than trying to keep an employee happy sitting there cutting out things on a table all day. We've all been there, done that - it's not fun...and this thing won't call in sick or have a bad attitude. (Hopefully, lol)
     
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  12. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    Sorry. I meant goproduce. Not summaflex. Goproduce had a ton of bugs since it's new.
     
  13. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    let me be clear, it's a phenomenal machine for 50k. We made our money back on it on the first job. But make no mistake by understanding this. Zund/ESKO are 3 times the price, but they are also 3 times the machine. But for someone in the position you are in, it will be great for your business.
     
  14. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Yup, that was my thoughts exactly. I can't justify dropping $100-150k on a Zund or Esko - just not in the cards...maybe someday, just wanting to be a little better off than we were without having to settle for a 10 year old used machine with a million hours on it...
     
  15. greysquirrel

    greysquirrel Active Member

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    the summa should be compared but not really to the Colex. both have their advantages/disadvantages...for what you are using it for its perfect. Use your existing cnc for all of the rigid stuff..
     
  16. Robert Gruner

    Robert Gruner Member

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    FatCat,

    Somewhere along the line, someone seems to be missing the point? The Summa F1612 is undoubtedly the best solution as a finishing tool for the general sign industry. Don't misunderstand me as I'm not implying it is a better flatbed cutting solution than Zund or Esko or Gerber/MCT for ALL applications; but, for most Sign Shop finishing jobs it will suffice. And, I might add, that for some finishing jobs it is absolutely superior to the performance of any Zund, Esko, or other brand. For example, there are some sign shops that produce thousands of printed and laminated "stickers". The F1612 mounted with two tangential modules (one holding a kiss cut knife and the other holding a die cut knife) will generally out perform Zund and others. This is because Summa is the known leader in the industry for tangential knife technology. If the end user's volume of sticker business is extremely high, they can print and laminate their media, kiss cut it on a Summa tangential roll cutter and then move the finished roll to the flatbed for die cutting. The Summa roll cutter will kiss cut the stickers 10 times faster than any Flatbed cutter as the mass of the cutting head is so much smaller and can move faster. I would concede that if the bulk of your business is cutting 1/2" or thicker plex, the Zund with a bigger and beefier router would be my choice. Add aluminum and those routers with "misting" capability to cool router bits make more sense; but, if that is your business, I would bypass Zund and Esko in favor of an AXYZ or MultiCam CNC machine.

    HulkSmash nailed it when he said he "he made his money back on the first job". Now he has a paid for F1612 and can go get a bigger unit if that is what he needs.

    I think you made a super wise decision. Most of the folks I know who purchased F1612 cutters have made the unit pay for itself. Many of these folks purchased the cutter for on or two specific applications; but, once they understood the strengths and weakness of the cutter, they have purchased additional modules for different cutting jobs.

    Enjoy you new cutter and I truly hope it makes you a FatterCat! :)
     
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  17. ProColorGraphics

    ProColorGraphics Very Active Member

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    I have had my F1612 for about 1.5 years now. I am having the front extension table installed next week. There hasn't been anything that I have needed done that this couldn't do. I couldn't image my shop now with out it. I am a one man shop, so I can't comment on speed as I hit cut and go do something else. You will definitely what the HD cut out knife. I have pretty much every tool but the pneumatic knife and the HD router. Having two tangential modules is a must in my opinion! The only tool I haven't been crazy about is the single edge cut out tool.

    I haven't had any issues with routing anything yet. A lot is a matter of the right bits and settings. One shop I know runs 1/2" acrylic frequently without any problems.

    GoProduce is getting better. Once they have it totally done, it will be awesome. I am constantly sending my contact at Summa suggestions for them to add. I am told eventually, GoProduce will take over the controls that the Axis does, so everything will be done in that one program.

    Let me know if you have any questions, would be glad to help.
     
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  18. ProColorGraphics

    ProColorGraphics Very Active Member

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    One other recommendation, add a surge protector for your new 3phase line!! This machine does NOT like power surges. ;)
     
  19. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Unit was delivered today! We got it off the truck, unpacked and placed in the shop without any issues. Just waiting on the technician to get it all installed next week. Looking forward to seeing what this thing will do!

     
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  20. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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