There, They're, Their

[Texas_Signmaker]

Its informal casual writing. It isnt always about not knowing the difference, not everybody is ultra attentive when they type in conversational format. Not a big deal.

It's like some people here showing up to Gino's parties in a suit and tie, and everyone else in shorts and a t-shirt.

 

[Gino]

Yeah, so why'd you show up with nothing on ?? Get the marshmallows out.


I like that. Some people here might even be potty trained. Never thought of it that way. Just thought most people just don't know any better. If this is how people write, then they must sound worse in person, cause most people dont think before they speak.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You know, I find it ironic when topics like this come up and the same people that cast an ugly light to people that make homophone mistakes are the same ones that use phrases like "begging the question" in very much the wrong way (hint, if "you" say something like "Well that begs the question..." and follow that up with an actual question, "you" are using it the wrong way). I am not saying that anyone in this specific thread is guilty of that, it is just something that I have noticed in previous threads of this nature.

Now, if it is in this very forum and things like that are made, this is not the place that people come for high concept communication. If the average person can't muddle through the question/post, that's one thing and more then likely the grammar and/or spelling will need to be adjusted to get the responses that one desires. Now, if the same person that makes the mistake in the informal venue in the formal venue (as in actual product that they produce and release) that's something else entirely.

 

[player]

You know, I find it ironic when topics like this come up and the same people that cast an ugly light to people that make homophone mistakes are the same ones that use phrases like "begging the question" in very much the wrong way (hint, if "you" say something like "Well that begs the question..." and follow that up with an actual question, "you" are using it the wrong way). I am not saying that anyone in this specific thread is guilty of that, it is just something that I have noticed in previous threads of this nature.

Now, if it is in this very forum and things like that are made, this is not the place that people come for high concept communication. If the average person can't muddle through the question/post, that's one thing and more then likely the grammar and/or spelling will need to be adjusted to get the responses that one desires. Now, if the same person that makes the mistake in the informal venue in the formal venue (as in actual product that they produce and release) that's something else entirely.

I beg to differ. People that come here are in an industry where the language is their bread and butter. A simple grammatical error can cost thousands of dollars and hours and hours of rework. A thread that discusses the proper use of our most powerful tool (language) should be welcomed. I am a terrible speller and I have to rework and double check my writing.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I beg to differ. People that come here are in an industry where the language is their bread and butter. A simple grammatical error can cost thousands of dollars and hours and hours of rework. A thread that discusses the proper use of our most powerful tool (language) should be welcomed. I am a terrible speller and I have to rework and double check my writing.

That's a different situation. On a final professional product that has those errors that's one thing. How one converses in an informal setting like this is something else.

I mean, if we are going to go that far, how many people here communicate using slang or regional colloquialism, either on here or maybe even in another setting? That should be a no no as well (and according to my old school English teaching grandma, it should have been).

Knowing the difference and when it is important to use over the other is a key distinction.

It's one thing to "eviscerate" someone over grammar/spelling with regard to a finished product, but in an informal setting like this, that's something else. Now the exception to that (and the irony here is that there are a lot of exceptions to rules in the English language, so this is fitting), is if grammar/spelling is so bad that it prevents someone from knowing how to answer a question, that's a totally different situation. I saw 2 people get on to someone in the Flexi sub forum, because they spelled Flexi as "Flexie". I am sorry, but I think most people can muddle through that and answer the question that the poster had. I found it harder to read some of OP's posts with all of the ))))))))))))(((((blah)))blahblahblah))))))(((((blah))) and I don't remember him getting any "thrashing" for that. Certainly you don't think those posts were grammatically sound?

 

[player]

That's a different situation. On a final professional product that has those errors that's one thing. How one converses in an informal setting like this is something else.

I mean, if we are going to go that far, how many people here communicate using slang or regional colloquialism, either on here or maybe even in another setting? That should be a no no as well (and according to my old school English teaching grandma, it should have been).

Knowing the difference and when it is important to use over the other is a key distinction.

It's one thing to "eviscerate" someone over grammar/spelling with regard to a finished product, but in an informal setting like this, that's something else. Now the exception to that (and the irony here is that there are a lot of exceptions to rules in the English language, so this is fitting), is if grammar/spelling is so bad that it prevents someone from knowing how to answer a question, that's a totally different situation. I saw 2 people get on to someone in the Flexi sub forum, because they spelled Flexi as "Flexie". I am sorry, but I think most people can muddle through that and answer the question that the poster had. I found it harder to read some of OP's posts with all of the ))))))))))))(((((blah)))blahblahblah))))))(((((blah))) and I don't remember him getting any "thrashing" for that. Certainly you don't think those posts were grammatically sound?

Sure Old Paint got thrashed for all the (((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))) stuff. All the time. You are taking this the wrong way. This is a learning opportunity. A chance to discuss the finer points of the English language. Nobody is attacking anybody. You are making something negative out of discussing grammar. There are many people who don't know or have forgotten the difference between there, they're and their. This post is to help everyone. It doesn't hurt to review these and other words mentioned in other posts too.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yeah, so why'd you show up with nothing on ?? Get the marshmallows out.


I like that. Some people here might even be potty trained. Never thought of it that way. Just thought most people just don't know any better. If this is how people write, then they must sound worse in person, cause most people dont think before they speak.

Many people just dont think.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Sure Old Paint got thrashed for all the (((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))) stuff. All the time

Maybe by the time I came around that had been sorted then, cuz I certainly don't remember that.

There are many people who don't know or have forgotten the difference between there, they're and their. This post is to help everyone. It doesn't hurt to review these and other words mentioned in other posts too.

Sure, but not everyone that makes those homophone mistakes have actually forgotten or don't know. Although, I would speculate that that isn't as much of the case, but I mention it, because it could be a possibility.

Now, this is a general example, not directed to you personally, I don't know if it applies or not to you. However, I have seen some people correct grammar, but yet use other terms incorrectly ("begging the question" that I referenced earlier being one (that's a huge pet peeve of mine)). So I find it hard to take someone as a logical appeal to authority (besides not being an English teacher, in most instances, some have started off as something else before getting into this gig) on a subject when they violate it in other ways.

Also consider that English is also evolving as time goes on. Things that once meant one thing, mean something else just due to the type of usage (again "begging the question" being one, I have a real problem with that) that has evolved over time. Everyone here keeping up with all of those changes? Agree or not with them, they happen.

However, the one thing that I am surprised in not seeing, especially here, is that I don't see many people correcting the number of spaces between sentences.

I thought that would have been high on the pet peeve list.

Don't forget to, two, & too. My wife is an high school English teacher and says some of her 9th grade students are reading on 4th & 5th grade levels. How are they allowed to graduate.
Definition of graduate: a person who has successfully completed a course of study or training.

No Child Left Behind.

Problem with a program like that, is when one has students that actually don't care.

Of course, how does one define "completing"? It could just have been as simple as their butt was in the chair for enough days, so they got passed to the next grade.

 

[Bobby H]

While no one is really attacking anyone, I will take the opportunity to attack one idea being floated in this thread: that the broad misuse of certain words in our culture is a failing of English teachers.

Sorry, but I think that's a bunch of bull$#1+. The student has to apply himself in class and make some effort to learn. The teacher can do only so much. It brings up the old phrase you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Plus, it's common sense stuff for anyone who has developed a reasonable level of English reading comprehension.

Honestly, given the disgusting level of open hatred people stupidly have for teachers (along with public education), and considering how badly so many teachers are paid (especially here in Oklahoma where average teacher pay is near dead last in the nation) I don't know how anyone would consciously want to be a teacher. Being a teacher is one of the ultimate $#!+ jobs we have in this country, despite how important teachers are to holding together the fabric of our society.

Here's a clue for the teacher haters: direct those flames at the breeding adults who are parents in title only. It's bad enough teachers have to deal with all the internal, professional problems that come with their jobs. But they also get to act as surrogate parents for the kids who don't have functional parents at home. They routinely see a lot of terrible things afflicting children and have to put up with the personality distortions that get baked into some of these kids. Regardless of whether one's own parents were good or bad, personal responsibility has to kick in at a certain age.

Getting back to the original discussion, I don't have the best sense of humor or tolerance for people misusing words like there, their and they're. There's nothing "gangsta" about typing nonsense like that, but I still get the feeling some kind of anti-intellectual culture is being promoted with those kinds of habits.

I would have more tolerance for the grammatical mistakes if the words were written by hand. But they're not. The text is being entered digitally. That stuff is easier to fix. Perhaps text messages by phone can slide because you can't really edit a text message after it has been sent. And the virtual keyboards on smart phones are pretty tiny. It's easy to fat-finger typos on those things. On the other hand most forums and social media sites will let the user both spell check and edit a post after the fact. I routinely proofread my own posts and edit as many typos I can find. I may not type out the verbiage perfectly the first time, but I try my best to clean it up.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You hens still clucking about this? I fell asleep after Wild West's first post...

 

[Gino]

This has turned into just another mud slinging thread. Wanna blame someone ?? Look in a mirror. I don't care if you're a teacher, a substitute teacher or a professor........ want good pay, be a good teacher. I'm not bashing, but I do have eyes and see what teachers are getting accomplished around the country, my neighbor's and in other countries. It's pathetic. Look at our college campuses. Supposedly, those are the bright kids. Yeah, right. For every kid who puts their nose to the grindstone, there are 75 just there to create havoc, cause they don't know any better. Does the acorn fall far from the tree ?? Nope, not at all, but then, their parents had the same chances their kids have, but become lousy parents after being lousy students.

Nothing to worry about, it looks like schools are gonna become a thing of the past, anyway. This whole pandemic thing has taught us we need to have all kids home schooled via computer. This'll be good, just watch and see. The honor system doesn't really work in our country anymore........ especially for kids with no learnings.

 

[netsol]

player,
languages always evolve, this is nothing new
try reading shakespeare or chaucer

 

[bob]

...phrases like "begging the question" in very much the wrong way (hint, if "you" say something like "Well that begs the question..." and follow that up with an actual question, "you" are using it the wrong way)...

'Begging the Question' is the name of the formal fallacy of using a circular argument, not demanding that some question be asked.

Now that that's cleared up, please continue with the current linguistic contretemps.

 

[Johnny Best]

 

[neutrinocv]

View attachment 146817

It's true they have to wear them. Unfortunately, many are through with them. As a sad result; they threw them away.

 

[d fleming]

Lose, loose, looser, loser?, loosen '[:%! I am in a small country town. You should see some of the napkin examples that come my way, lol.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

'Begging the Question' is the name of the formal fallacy of using a circular argument, not demanding that some question be asked.

As I said, if someone was saying "that begs the question" and follows it up with a question, they are using it wrong. I didn't necessarily want to get into my "the dog is blue, because the dog is blue" example, but I reckon I have to.

The problem that I have, is that people get on their high horse about homophone mistakes in an informal settings (which could just very well be a function of a lack of adequate proof reading, not necessarily ignorance of the rules) and yet, they do something like that with "begging the question".

I'm sure that is just me though.

 

[Bobby H]

George H.W. Bush once famously said, "read my lips, no new taxes!" He was misunderstood. He clearly said, "read my lips, know new taxes!"

I don't care if you're a teacher, a substitute teacher or a professor........ want good pay, be a good teacher. I'm not bashing, but I do have eyes and see what teachers are getting accomplished around the country, my neighbor's and in other countries. It's pathetic.

Most schools, both public and private don't base teacher pay on student performance, particularly test scores. You can have an outstanding quality teacher lead a class and still have failing students. The classroom doesn't exist in a vacuum. Many additional variables affect student performance. Some of those variables are choices made by the student. The kid has to pay attention in class and absorb the material. He has to study at home and finish his homework. Most kids who fail simply don't follow through on those basic things. Those failing students often have parents who are uninvolved.

Now there are indeed bad teachers. The notion the teaching profession can be a catch-all for screw-ups is thanks in part to how little we as a nation value teachers, particularly in primary and secondary public schools. The pay scales are not competitive at attract the best talent. People who would otherwise be great teachers are going into other professions instead. Thankfully some Americans really do want to teach and have a passion for it. Obviously they're doing it for reasons other than the pay.

Another big problem: very mixed standards of education across the US. I grew up as a Marine Corps brat, moving every 2-3 years or sometimes more often than that. I went to 3 different schools in the 10th grade when my father went through the Warrant Officer program. The experience was hell for me because these schools in different parts of the country had their own standards as part of their prized "autonomy" and "independence" with how they designed their education systems. When I wound up at Quantico High I felt like I was drowning because they were so far ahead of what I had been taught in New Mexico or Louisiana the previous 3 quarters. I had to pester teachers to help me catch-up. Far more Americans than just military families have to pull up stakes and move to new locations from time to time.

 

[unclebun]

Is it time to bring up to and two too?