To meat or not to meat, that is the question.

[OldPaint]

vegetarian pizza......AND DELICIOUS!!!! and only $2.50...........whats not to love)))))http://www.digiorno.com/products/thin-crispy/thin-crispy/11362/spinach-and-garlic
as for what vegetarians lack in food intake, you have to clarify that VEGAN........... are the one who dont get enough b-12 or amino acids. VEGAN do not intake ANY ANIMAL PRODUCTS. hence their lack of B-12. not all veggies are VEGAN. for the most of my 19 years i was a LACTO-OVO vegetarian. i drank mike, ate eggs & cheese. so i was getting all the b-12/amino acids required. as for protein intake..........as i stated earlier the daily required protein is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound (1). This amounts to (2, 3): 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man. 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman. so like said, that 10 oz steak you just devoured ........less the 2 OUNCES..............IS UTILIZED in the body............the rest goes into the toilet))))
in all my years eating LACTO- OVO and being a strong guy for most of that.........i never felt PROTEIN DEPRIVED. the last 6-7 years doing the veggie thing, i included fish.......i was in poncuchula LA. for a weekend.........and its seafood or starve)))))

 

[player]

vegitarian pizza......AND DELICIOUS!!!! and only $2.50...........whats not to love)))))http://www.digiorno.com/products/thin-crispy/thin-crispy/11362/spinach-and-garlic

INGREDIENTS
Ingredients
Water, Enriched Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Low-Moisture Part-Skim Mozzarella Cheese (Part-Skim Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes), Spinach Blend (Spinach, Garlic), Tomato Paste, Creme Fraiche Sauce (Water, Vegetable Oil [Canola and/or Soybean Oil] Cultured Milk, Cream Cheese [Pasteurized Milk, Cream, Cheese Cultures, Salt, Carob Bean Gum], Garlic, Nautral Flavors, Modified Cellulose, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Mono & Diglycerides, Food Starch Modified, Sugar, Sorbic Acid, Carrageenan), Mozzarella Cheese (Milk, Skim Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes), Contains less than 2% of shortening (Palm Oil, Natural Butter Flavor, Beta Carotene[Color]), Bread Crumbs (Bleached Wheat Flour, Yeast, Sugar, Salt), Vegetable Oil (Soybean and/or Corn Oils), Yeast, Baking Powder (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate), Reduced Sodium Salt Blend (Salt, Potassium Chloride, Natural Flavor), Seasoning Blend (Salt, Spice, Dried Garlic), Sugar, Spice, Mono-and Diglycerides, Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
CONTAINS; MILK, WHEAT

NUTRITIONAL INFO
Serving Size 1/3 pizza (112g)
Servings per Container 3

Amount Per Serving
Calories 250	Calories from Fat 110
	% Daily Value*
Total Fat 13g	20%
Saturated Fat 6g	30%
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 25mg	8%
Sodium 480mg	20%
Total Carbohydrates 23g	8%
Dietary Fiber 2g	8%
Sugars 2g
Protein 9g
Vitamin A 20%	Calcium 25%
Vitamin C 4%	Iron 10%

*Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.

 

[neil_se]

 

[WildWestDesigns]

It's not one way or the other. It really isn't. It amazes me how many people think so.

For those that are only plant eaters, please explain the function of canines and molars for taking care of plant material?

We also don't possess a functioning cecum anymore (appendix). Also bare in mind that our appendix is not the relative same size for our body compared to that of a herbivore, so even if it was still functioning, it still doesn't play a big of a part as it would for a herbivore. That seems to me, that it would indicate that plant material is a part of the diet, but not a huge part.

You want to keep your blood-sugar stable? Best way to do that is with protein. Best sources of protein for this include: chicken, beef, shrimp, eggs. That comes from the Journal of American College of Nutrition. That helps you feel more satiated and less hungry during your next meal. Now, beans and lentils can be used for some protein, but the best sources are going to be meat and animal products. Yes, protein can be found in other sources, I'm not saying that it can't be, but our best sources are going to be meat.

Fats slow down emptying, emptying is what raises and can raise quickly your blood sugar. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism actually advocates for the addition of fats. Fats are easier to get in other sources. Coconut oil is a good one. I prefer Avocados myself. However, fats are also found in meat as well.


Low Carb foods, this is where people really screw up with. They like the high carb foods. That's were the danger lays, especially with sedentary people. High carb foods are easily converted to sugar (and huge amounts of sugar) during the digestive process (which goes into the relevance of fats in the diet). If you are sedentary, nothing for all that sugar to do except go into storage. When you start working out, you only go through your energy that's easily accessed, then you start chipping away at storage (20+ minutes of exercise above a certain heart rate on average). Soft drinks I would say are people's worst enemy here. But this also includes breads, rice, pasta etc.


Not only do you want foods that are low in carbs, but also have a low glycemic index. Which means it takes longer to digest. Which translates into harder to digest. Which further translates in being "full" longer and not wanting those snacks. This is where your leafy greens come into play (remember, cellulose is problematic for us as we don't have a functioning cecum) and your fruits and nuts etc. However, I would say most people go for the starchy stuff. Potatoes, white and even whole wheat breads (health nuts, at least around here do like their whole wheat) etc. Which also plays a part in parts 2 and 3 of the list as well. Everything seems to be interconnected here.



I would say that it isn't meat in of itself (take note that meat is found in 2 parts of the above list of types of foods that nutritionists would probably recommend when fighting obesity and/or diabetes considering the 2 sources used), but it's sugars and the more sedentary lifestyle that are the real culprit here. Plus the introduction of grains and processed foods (which goes into the sugar part of it). However, if you do anything in over abundance, especially will being sedentary, not a good thing.

Oh and ask dentists about what they think of sugars and teeth health. I don't think sugars will do to well in that endeavor as well.

 

[Gino]

Ya know, most of you are talking about people in tip top shape for all of this nutritional information. Many people are on medications for so many different reasons and today's meds play a big part in rearranging how our bodies consume and utilize our foods. Certain drugs will completely block certain things from entering our system, while others will not recognize them. Most are passed out without even being used in the fashion it was meant. Moderation is fine, Mediterranean is fine, alcohol is fine, certain drugs are fine, diet fads are fine, meat is fine, fats are fine. When done in harmony with what you do along with exercise and some relaxing time, you'll be fine. Remember, just about every test or theory out there is derived from testing performed under very strict conditions. These conditions are then diagnosed as the gospel, ht are ot very accurate. This is called the pharmaceutical industry. They are in business to keep us dependent on enough drugs so they can make money. Our diets and mostly lousy eating habits is what keeps them going..... strong.

This whole thread is complete evidence, no one knows what they're talking about. Everyone is spouting off basically the same thing...... we need to eat to stay alive and replenish our bodies. Like anything, we all have different views on it. Ya wanna eat only grass and red things or chickens or cats ?? People eat insects round the world. Most good foods aren't even avaiable where the majority of people live. It hasta be shipped in. Eat a well balanced diet and stop being a couch potato or computer freak and stay active and one should weather quite well, even with a few side effects like hypertension or some other small annoying problem.

Oh yeah, there are many many foods which are indeed useless. ANY fast food place, almost any restaurant, no matter what ethnic group it is and anything that has more ingredients on the box or bag, than the thing in it you're eating. That processed food will get you in the end. Most places will sweeten up the food or salt it death..... to make it palatable.

Bon apitite...............

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Ya know, most of you are talking about people in tip top shape for all of this nutritional information. Many people are on medications for so many different reasons and today's meds play a big part in rearranging how our bodies consume and utilize our foods. Certain drugs will completely block certain things from entering our system, while others will not recognize them. Most are passed out without even being used in the fashion it was meant. Moderation is fine, Mediterranean is fine, alcohol is fine, certain drugs are fine, diet fads are fine, meat is fine, fats are fine. When done in harmony with what you do along with exercise and some relaxing time, you'll be fine. Remember, just about every test or theory out there is derived from testing performed under very strict conditions. These conditions are then diagnosed as the gospel, ht are ot very accurate. This is called the pharmaceutical industry. They are in business to keep us dependent on enough drugs so they can make money. Our diets and mostly lousy eating habits is what keeps them going..... strong.

Yes and no. And I do have other issues in general with the medical and pharmaceutical industries (and they are tied together pretty well).

In order to have any type of model rather medical, economical, or meteorological etc, you have to keep some variables constant and test for the variables that you want to test for. It is very hard, in any model, to account for every conceivable variable. Some variables happen in nature. Some variables are man made due to interactions within the person's body or they are man made because the person chose to abuse their body. Then, of course, you have genetics and that can make a person weaker or stronger, which can affect the above interactions. You can't derive any kind of model to base a decision off of if you try to account for every conceivable variable. Good luck trying to replicate that testing as well, even if the testing did have truth to it, if it can't be replicated, it will be dismissed.

 

[Gino]

Yes and no. And I do have other issues in general with the medical and pharmaceutical industries (and they are tied together pretty well).

In order to have any type of model rather medical, economical, or meteorological etc, you have to keep some variables constant and test for the variables that you want to test for. It is very hard, in any model, to account for every conceivable variable. Some variables happen in nature. Some variables are man made due to interactions within the person's body or they are man made because the person chose to abuse their body. Then, of course, you have genetics and that can make a person weaker or stronger, which can affect the above interactions. You can't derive any kind of model to base a decision off of if you try to account for every conceivable variable. Good luck trying to replicate that testing as well, even if the testing did have truth to it, if it can't be replicated, it will be dismissed.

Agreed, but what I'm implying is simply, whatever side of the fence you're on (meaning the big companies involved) they will pull and use the parts of studies which will benefit their cause, no matter how biased it is. Then, a person reading this trash, forms opinions based on these half truths.

As to what diet or food you eat..... to each his/her own. All of Gods food is good for all of us. It's the man made crap and added chemicals which hurts us. Eating healthy only helps, when you live healthy. Food alone does not do the job. Live healthy, makes a world of difference.

 

[OldPaint]

i got this ..............from a talented artist and its funny.........thank you mr leninn.......

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

[Sorry for the novella, but nutrition and human biology is something that's incredibly fascinating to me. The TL;DR is that nutrition isn't the same for everyone. We're biologically adapted to eat just about anything and you should eat whatever (in regards to a meat or vegetarian diet) makes you feel the best without negatively impacting your health.]

So much misinformation!

Before I go into the nutrition thing, I'd just like to point out that it's a commonly believed myth that hunter-gatherer societies had to work all day every day collecting food to survive. Time spent acquiring resources was somewhere around 15 to 20 hours a week. The rest of the time was spent in preparation of food or leisure. All said, hunter-gatherer societies has more leisure time than those of us living in modern societies. If you're interested, you should do a little research on the original affluent societies. Observation of current hunter-gatherer groups have given us even further insight into the lives of the original hunter-gatherers. It's pretty fascinating stuff. We pay a heavy price for all of modern amenities and our massive populations.

Anyway, nutrition isn't a "one-size fits all" thing. While everyone has the same general nutritional requirements, there are always going to be exceptions and special cases. The human body needs fat, protein, and carbohydrates. It doesn't really matter where it comes from (i.e., meat or vegetable), as long as you ingest the food, your body is capable of digesting the food, and you're able to metabolize the food. As long as you're not stuffing your face full of highly processed foods, anything you eat that meets the body's requirements for functioning is good.

From a purely biological standpoint, human beings are somewhere in the middle of herbivores and carnivores. We're omnivores, and like all omnivores we've adapted and evolved to be able to thrive on whatever our most common food sources are. In the case of humans, it's pretty much anything we can catch or find. We have a pretty unique mouth, for instance, compared to other omnivores who have very specific diets. We definitely don't have the same type of mouth as carnivores or true herbivores. Our digestive systems are completely different from either carnivores or herbivores. We have long digestive tracts compared to carnivores and we can't eat raw or rotten meat without getting very sick or dying, so we're clearly not carnivores. We have shorter digestive tracts compared to herbivores and we're incapable of properly metabolizing lots of raw, fibrous plant material, so we're clearly not true herbivores. Humans only developed the ability to digest animal milk fairly recently (around 10,000 to 15,000 years ago and in very specific areas) and in some parts of the world, the instance of lactose intolerance is above 90%, due to low genetic drift and a lack of animal domestication for dairy.

There is so much misinformation out there, being spoon fed to Americans, that we'll believe pretty much anything the media tells us at this point. Think about all the dietary fads over the last 20 years. Eggs used to be terrible. Then they were okay. Then they were bad for us again. Now they're good for us. That happens over and over and over again with a myriad of foods.

Moderation is not the answer for everything. There are certain things that you absolutely need to avoid. Added sugar (not the pectins from fruit or the sugars in breast milk, for instance) is something that should be avoided. Processed sugar serves no real nutritional purpose. The benefits that come from the quick energy boost are negligible in comparison to the drawbacks. Can you eat added sugar? Yes. Is it better for you in moderation? Yes. It is never, however, good for you. Added sugar is always bad for you (with certain, very specific exceptions). Even foods that don't contain added sugar can be bad for you, depending on how they cause your blood sugar to respond, because the body actually creates sugar when metabolizing certain foods. It's part of the reason processed foods are so insidious.

Nutrition isn't as easy as just reading a label. There is an entire science devoted to understanding how and why the human body processes foods the way it does. And it's constantly changing. Part of that change is dictated by actual science and part of that change is dictated by money. Big corporations want you to believe that added sugar is fine so they can sell you Malted Frosted Sugar Bomb cereal.

Whether you should or shouldn't eat meat depends on a lot of things. We have the luxury of making that decision because of the society we live in. In other parts of the world, it's not a choice. You either eat meat because it's available, or you don't eat meat, because it's scarce.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

[Sorry for the novella, but nutrition and human biology is something that's incredibly fascinating to me.

It doesn't really matter where it comes from (i.e., meat or vegetable), as long as you ingest the food, your body is capable of digesting the food, and you're able to metabolize the food. As long as you're not stuffing your face full of highly processed foods, anything you eat that meets the body's requirements for functioning is good.

From a purely biological standpoint, human beings are somewhere in the middle of herbivores and carnivores. We're omnivores, and like all omnivores we've adapted and evolved to be able to thrive on whatever our most common food sources are. In the case of humans, it's pretty much anything we can catch or find.

Nutrition isn't as easy as just reading a label. There is an entire science devoted to understanding how and why the human body processes foods the way it does. And it's constantly changing. Part of that change is dictated by actual science and part of that change is dictated by money. Big corporations want you to believe that added sugar is fine so they can sell you Malted Frosted Sugar Bomb cereal.

Whether you should or shouldn't eat meat depends on a lot of things. We have the luxury of making that decision because of the society we live in. In other parts of the world, it's not a choice. You either eat meat because it's available, or you don't eat meat, because it's scarce.

It is a fascinating science. I have to agree with you there. Now my education in this was mainly devoted to equine, but we did spend a lot of time relating that to other livestock and humans.

I believe in getting what we need from the most efficient. If the function is best to be derived from animal matter, then so be it. If its best to be derived from plant matter, then use that. It depends on the efficiency of the metabolic process for what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes, it's the lack of efficiency that you want to accomplish a certain task. This is where it really started to get interesting with horse nutrition, especially show horses, but I digress.

Now, this assumes optimal availability of all inputs. Depending on whats available determines rather to intake more or less. However, for proper nutrition, its about what is the most efficient (and sometimes inefficient is the efficient thing to do, depends on your purpose).

If we chose something that is inefficient for a purpose and each person has to consume more of it to meet their own specific dietary requirement, I fail to see how good that it is in the long run. Now, I realize thats if a person (or persons) has the ability to choose for whatever reason. That is assuming optimal conditions, which is really what this discussion is about. No way to account for all variables, some things have to be held constant, even though they may not be in the real world.

 

[Brink]

Mmmm. Yum.

 

[eahicks]

I just have to laugh at people that get on a SIGN forum and rant about ridiculous BS like this....even thought it's the "General Chit-Chat" section....still. Come on.

 

[TimToad]

I always get the image of how the earthlings are portrayed in WALL-E whenever seeing images like this. Our future is ours, we can either continue down "denial" highway and literally eat our society into instability and bankruptcy or we can figure out that all of our choices have consequences..

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I just have to laugh at people that get on a SIGN forum and rant about ridiculous BS like this....even thought it's the "General Chit-Chat" section....still. Come on.

It's no different than talking about sports or movies in general chit chat. Except maybe that's a little more useful, since you're (potentially) gaining some knowledge. To each their own, though!

 

[Gino]

I don't know what horses eat, let alone a show horse, but I would imagine it's a rather well balanced and nutritional diet. I don't know many 'show humans', but what I do see is the majority of them take all kinds of steroids and other muscle-enhancing drugs to be in tip top shape. They don't appear healthy, but we're told they are perfect specimens. Not in my book.

Regardless of how or where we get the best nutrition is a good start, but where you buy your food is another story. How do you know what's been done to it ?? Was the meat enhanced while the animal was alive, were the veggies or fruit grown with all kinds of insecticides or other crap to make bigger and stronger fruit or is it best just left alone to grow whatever way is natural ?? Has the ground/dirt these things are grown been depleted of all necessary nutrients for the fruits and veggies to grow healthy ?? Are we ingesting healthy stuff to begin with ?? Does the food we eat have the necessary nutrients for us ?? These reasons are the very cause for having to fortify things with more vitamins or minerals..... cause it ain't got it anymore. However, in the cheap forms they use, you generally p!ss it out within a few hours and your body gets very little if anything from it.

Luckily for me, we buy meat directly from the butchers. We live in a very good farm belt and most of our food around here comes from Pennsylvania Dutch farm lands and it is still tended the way it was the last few hundred years. They rotate crops, they don't use any enhancing drugs on their animals for work or for food. We know it's good when we get it. Our milk is raw and drawn from the cow earlier that morning. The eggs were grabbed that morning, too. We know what these animals eat, cause we see it. We try to be as careful as possible, not to put crap into out bodies. Booze and an Italian sandwich here or there is not gonna hurt. we just poop that right out. Eating fast foods, food out of the grocery store boxes and on the go is just no good if you do it more than once a week. People don't cook from scratch anymore. Other than some organic chicken stock or a can of sardines, we have very little in the pantry. We buy very little processed meats and we make almost all of our meals from scratch. That way, we can control the amount of sugars, salt and other things we're using.

Again, Mediteranian, Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig or any of the others, they are just fad diets. Most of them work, if you include a good cardio and muscle exercise program with them.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

It is a fascinating science. I have to agree with you there. Now my education in this was mainly devoted to equine, but we did spend a lot of time relating that to other livestock and humans.

I believe in getting what we need from the most efficient. If the function is best to be derived from animal matter, then so be it. If its best to be derived from plant matter, then use that. It depends on the efficiency of the metabolic process for what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes, it's the lack of efficiency that you want to accomplish a certain task. This is where it really started to get interesting with horse nutrition, especially show horses, but I digress.

Now, this assumes optimal availability of all inputs. Depending on whats available determines rather to intake more or less. However, for proper nutrition, its about what is the most efficient (and sometimes inefficient is the efficient thing to do, depends on your purpose).

If we chose something that is inefficient for a purpose and each person has to consume more of it to meet their own specific dietary requirement, I fail to see how good that it is in the long run. Now, I realize thats if a person (or persons) has the ability to choose for whatever reason. That is assuming optimal conditions, which is really what this discussion is about. No way to account for all variables, some things have to be held constant, even though they may not be in the real world.

If you haven't read Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human you should check it out. It seems like something that you might enjoy.

 

[rjssigns]

eat crappy die happy :Big Laugh

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I don't know what horses eat, let alone a show horse, but I would imagine it's a rather well balanced and nutritional diet. I don't know many 'show humans', but what I do see is the majority of them take all kinds of steroids and other muscle-enhancing drugs to be in tip top shape. They don't appear healthy, but we're told they are perfect specimens. Not in my book.

I knew I shouldn't have digressed with that. Not what I was going with it at all.

There are quite a few things wrong with the weight lifting community that it isn't good at all. However, the same thing has been done in the horse world as well.

Again, not what direction I was going with that.

 

[Gino]

I knew I shouldn't have digressed with that. Not what I was going with it at all.

There are quite a few things wrong with the weight lifting community that it isn't good at all. However, the same thing has been done in the horse world as well.

Again, not what direction I was going with that.

Actually, it has everything to do with the discussion. While we're not increasing our muscle size or tone, we are discussing people taking certain habits, fads, diets to extremes and claiming it to be Godsend to a certain extent. Nothing wrong with believing in what you do, eat or how one sees things is right or wrong, but there are many many other possibilities out there, saying the same thing someone else is, but using different words. I'm not a fan of calling people names like Redneck or implying others are smug, just because I don't agree with them. However, calling a newbie a newbie or a hack a hack is different. Then, you are describing someone and not making fun of them. Calling someone names should be done in person, not here. Among friends, that can be done..... I do it all the time, but here, all the people are so-self absorbed with basically nothing, they take offense to honest fun. Most of this earlier was not done in fun.

To discuss eating habits, what is good for you and what is bad for you and drawing a line in the sand, is at best, ridiculous. We all eat food and need it to exist. Treat your body like a temple or abuse it..... I don't care, but to derail someone else's thread with it is preposterous. To start your own is a good idea and I'm glad it was done, but again, let's discuss and not fight. The same as no one here knows what anyone else's needs are in certain areas or whatnot, to be diagnosing diets. Now they have medical licenses on top of their sign licenses, huh ?? What if someone is shellfish intolerant or allergic to certain foods ?? Is it still the best diet on the planet ?? Heck no. Like mentioned, you need to find what works for you and go with it...... all of this if you are indeed conscious of your body and the condition it's in.

​

 

[chester215]

Someone said the other day-

If you can't pronounce the words for the ingredients in the food you want to buy, don't buy it.

Unfortunately I can pronounce some pretty long words.