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Too many sign shops!!

tomence

New Member
Stop crying all of you. No one has a right to judge no one on opening a basement sign business or mobile sign business or whatever it is everyone has a right to try it. Same like truck drivers lets say i am a driver and then you come apply for the same job that i have now what i have to kill so i can survaive? Answer: NO there is job for both of us. Guys i am from chicago and this city is more than 10 mil ppl and god knows how many business. I mean there is tons of work but you have to find it, work doesnt come to you, you go after work and find it. I started out of my second room in my apartment and yes with only a 24" cutter then i grew into doing digital print banner, porster, signs, screen printing now own two automatics and one manual and another screen print flatbed, i mean from one room to a big place and let me tell you this I made more money when i was in that little room than now. So stop complaining and go find yourselfs work. I would rather cut my vinyl out of my house go install it and make clean, crispy fresh money without thinking of paying employers, rent, utilities, trash, so there it is thats my opinion wether you like or not.
 

tomence

New Member
Another thing i forgot to mention. Stop talking bad about the small guys, look at your merchant members here offering prices that are unbelivalble low why dont you say anything about that. I mean yeah its good for us but its bad because they started selling wholesale to the public now, i am not saying about the merchants here but in general. I used to sub my work to a very large sign shop close to me and was thinking yeah i got a good price and i can make double the money but just to my surprise they started offering their low prices to the general public. And lets be real the reallity is we all cut prices i know i see here ppl saying no i dont cut prices and stuff but to me thats a lie. Like somebody mention sells 12"x18 set of magnets for $90. Come one now i havent sold any at that price and i dont think i will ever get that price when down the street they make'em for less than $40.
 

SignManiac

New Member
Like somebody mention sells 12"x18 set of magnets for $90. Come one now i havent sold any at that price and i dont think i will ever get that price when down the street they make'em for less than $40.

You are your own worst enemy. I just delivered a pair of 10" x 22" mags yesterday for $125.00 Just because "you" can't sell them for that doesn't mean everyone else can't. As the great orator and statesmen D.Allen once said around the turn of the century, "You get what you settle for".
 

TheSnowman

New Member
You are your own worst enemy. I just delivered a pair of 10" x 22" mags yesterday for $125.00 Just because "you" can't sell them for that doesn't mean everyone else can't. As the great orator and statesmen D.Allen once said around the turn of the century, "You get what you settle for".

I agree. Most people are doing them for nothing now, and online it's ridicules, but I still sell several a week at $90, and I'm not about to change that price.
 

MachServTech

New Member
When I walk into a shop I can tell weather they are operating in the black or not. This economy has been hard on all of us, but there have been thousands of shops that have been weeded out....thank goodness! You might think that I wouldn't care what shops come and go, but its actually scary for me to walk into a shop where the floors are dirty and the machine hasn't been maintained at all and cigarette dust covers everything. I think to myself, will this guy actually pay me for my services?
I would much rather maintain a relationship with sign shops that care about their equipment. Thats no accident, it reflects in everything they do.

No matter where you are in this industry, professionals are always more of a pleasure to deal with.
 

SignManiac

New Member
Back on point to the original topic. It's a free country and everyone has the same right to go into the sign business just like you did, and yes the industry is over saturated with people in it, thanks to the computer and cheap plotters. You are not going to see that change. Get over it.

So what can you do about it? There's plenty you can do... But first, you need to set yourself apart from everyone else who is just selling a commodity. As long as you're selling the same crap that everyone else is, expect to compete on price alone, and low price will generally win in this day and age.

However, there's a lot more to this business than chopping out and selling vinyl letters by the pound. Customer service, the quality of your work, advertising value of your products, your talent and the diversity of your product line, all of these added up can make you better than your competition. If you're willing to excel in all of these areas and run your business the right way, you won't have to spend your time being pissed off or paranoid about every Joe Blow down the street selling his commodity. You have to stop worrying about what your competition charges and stop letting them set your prices. It's possible to get more money for your work, but not if you're selling the same garbage that the competition is putting out and selling for less.

I'm in a relatively small town. I've been here for eighteen years and have always stayed busy. I have a reputation for being expensive, one that I'm proud of. I've seen countless shops open up and close, all thinking they could make a killing if they undercut everyone's price. Eventually they price themselves "out of business". Working for nothing isn't much fun after a while.

So instead of whining and complaining about everyone else in the business, learn how to run your business successfully and be the exception. Yes it's harder to be in this business today, but that just means you have to work harder at it to be better than the other guy. What you invest in this business is directly related to what you will get out of it. And I'm not talking about investing in equipment either. There are more important things you should be investing in. Basic business fundamentals, your design skills, marketing, these are the important areas where you should invest most of your time and money. A tool is only as good as the person who knows how to use it. Crap work printed on a $30k printer still looks like crap.

Don't be one of those shops today that are systematically destroying our communities with their graphic pollution that litters this country. They should be ashamed of what they've done! Most here will never "get it" but maybe a few just might.
 

Techman

New Member
No, there is not too many sign shops.
There are too many sign shop owners who are not business persons. They are merely technicians owning their own job.
There are lots of them technicians posting on this thread right here.

I see two types. the whiners and the victors.

Signmaniac is a victor. He sells magnetics for a price that is worthy of his skills. But then you do not see his magnetics just three lines of type on a white background. They are artforms.

Another poster is a winner. He talks about the professional look.

Most others are the whiners spending time complaining instead of learning how to run a business model, and learning how to set a demographics. Whine, its just an excuse to make yourselves feel better about your lack of business skills. Complaining about not "getting that price here" is a sure sign of not knowing what to do about it.

We are our own worst enemy. We do no know what we do not know. We sit here at level one incompetence and blame. So here I am giving the whiners notice that there is a way to get a better level of work and income.

First. Quit blaming others for your problems.
Second. Go out and find the knowledge to build your own demographics and business model.
Third. do not look at who is around you. They do not matter. Look instead at how you can improve your marketing skills. Its that easy.
 
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Pat Whatley

New Member
No, there is not too many sign shops.
There are too many sign shop owners who are not business persons. They are merely technicians owning their own job.
There are lots of them technicians posting on this thread right here.

That's me. I've been fighting the "technician" battle since the day I bought the shop.
 

Sticky Signs

New Member
I'm diggin' this post. I have about 20 shops with a 10 block radius. I think some of you old timers have to change your point of view a little bit and here's why - Get to know the competition and share your "trade secrets". It's good for everybody.
When I was starting out, I met the guys who run a shop a block away from me. Super nice guys that really know their stuff and have a very successful business. This has really worked out great for all of us. For example, he calls me one day because his printer is down and needs something right away. No problem. I make a few quick bucks for helping him out. Another time his installer called in sick one day and needs some prints installed. More money in my pocket. On the flip side, they've also helped me out. They now have a flat bed printer which means I can sell "direct to substrate" and have them print it for me. saves me the labour of mounting vinyl on to the substrates. Plus, I 've learned lots of little tricks and techniques from these guys that really help make my job easier. Another great aspect is that we can bounce ideas off each other. We don't have any said "trade secrets". It's all on the table and it's great because we can learn from each other. why is this good? Because it's helps make us all better at what we do - making quality products at a fair price. Screw the low ballers because they'll screw themselves in the end. By communicating with the other shops around, we can get a good understanding of the "industry standard" when it comes to pricing. I have no problem telling someone they should be charging more for "insert product here". Now he knows what I charge and why. He thinks about it a realizes that I'm right and in turn charges a more appropriate price. In turn, this evens out the "industry standard" and we can all have a piece of the pie. I always make a point to meet the competition and I always extend a helping hand. In most cases, we've been able to help each other out in some way or another and we're all better for it at the end of the day.
I could go on and on but I'm gonna leave it at that. Think about it...
 

Patrick46

New Member
I got into a discussion on another thread the other day (on here) about how to compete against the other shops that offer 'quick signs'.

Well, here's the perfect quote for those 'quickie' shops out there...
It takes a little bit longer to land the big fish but they provide more meals!
You guys can spend your time fighting over 10 small 'quickie' signs. Knock 'em out in an hour or two and be done until the next one shows up to fight over. (and you'll keep on doing this, over & over & over.........)

SKREW THAT!!!...I'm goin after the customer who'll feed me for a MONTH with his 1 job!


Well said...the "technician" mentality as opposed to the "entrepreneurial" one!!!

JP:toasting:
JP has obviously read the 'E-Myth' by Michael Gerber. Now THAT is an awesome book!!! (top of my 'Must Read' list for small business owners) I now have 2 of his other books as well.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Like Patrick........

I would rather letter one truck for $2,000, then 10 trucks for $200 a piece. The only problem with that is, unless you have a lot of the big fish as gbah put it.... you're putting your eggs all into one basket.

If one or two eggs break and fall out... you've got a lot of scrabbling to do.

I know a guy here locally that would not touch a truck or sign job unless he got paid well for it... and I mean WELL. He did nice in his shop for some years, having his select customers, but as the economy got tough he would ask me how business was for us and he told me his was dwindling. I know this guy since about 1975 and we did many jobs together and he would come in and do work for me at a reduced price. Well, he got too big for his britches and although we stayed friends... we didn't do too much work together anymore. We still did our share of drinking and having fun, but we never mixed business with friendship. In the last two years... all but two or three of his big clients have left him and about 6 months ago he asked me for some work... or if he could put in three days a week in out shop. I told him I had plenty of work, but none that he could do for me.... and that was the truth. I felt bad for him, but he is so set in his ways.... I can't use him anymore. He's sold his motorcycle, van, Vette, other toys and now his wife left him for no reason... according to him.

He is so used to milking everything... he can't produce and now since we're so digitally inclined..... there's not much he can do. He can't even use his own computer system for much more than die-cutting and he has no digitally capabilities at all. He's literally painted himself into a corner and now has no way out.

I believe while cultivating some big paying customers... its good practice to keep those little ones coming in. You'd be surprised at how many little quickies have turned into some really nice accounts.

He's a true dinosaur and hasn't kept up with technology or business methods.
 

tomence

New Member
If you are going to wait for those high paid jobs that you imagine in your head you will be the first one to go out of business.
 

gbarker

New Member
This is the reason I went wholesale. I opened up the phone book and noticed I had 40+ competitors within 15 miles. Not all of them had bucket trucks and printing capability. They would call me to do the service work and printing then a light bulb went off in my head. Sure hope it was the right move...
 

luggnut

New Member
sign maniac says it best... and it's not easy, i am still working at it.

you know mcdonalds, outback, and even fancier restaurants all sell hamburgers ... mcdonalds is the cheapest but people don't always go there.. why? the presentation, atmosphere , service at the nicer places... and people will pay a little more for it.

you may be mcdonalds, if thats the case you are bargaining on price alone... everyone can't be the best or even just really good but someone has to be .. can it be you and can you market enough to make others know it?

are you capable of closing the sales? is your work going to stand up and make people believe it was money well spent?
 
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