transparent black vinyl?

[letterman7]

Not translucent, but transparent black. I have the opportunity to bid on a local law enforcement unit that uses quite a few ghosted vehicles. What they have looks every bit like a standard gold reflective (they have to have it reflect gold) that has been overprinted in black (vehicles are black). You can see the mottled pattern from the print in the reflection:

Now, I have no issue with trying to mimic whomever did the initial run of vehicles.. it just might take me a while to get the correct density of black and still have the gold reflect through. So then I got to thinking... is there such a thing as a transparent black vinyl that could be overlaid? I looked through all my catalogs and the only thing I found was translucent black (which, really, isn't all that translucent). Other than a window tint film - which no, I won't use - has anyone seen a transparent black film? Or, has anyone found a reflective black that has a gold tint at night? Most of my 3M's and FDC films reflect back that weird white/grey so that won't work. The only reason I'm asking is to try to "smooth" the look of a printed decal and make it more uniform.

Rick

 

[scott pagan]

i have not seen that before. reflective black rolls from 3M/Avery/etc reflects more of a silver/white like you mentioned.

another s101 user, SellerSign&Design, has produced a similar effect for fireman's helmet badges, but i don't know the process they are using.

 

[rjssigns]

Not sure if you're set up to spray automotive finishes, but here is an idea. Tint clear coat with either black paint or toner. Then spray some test pieces to get the density you want. Just like spraying candy paint. Done correctly the look should be flawless.

Way back before digital printers I used to spray all kinds of effects on vinyl.

 

[letterman7]

Not sure if you're set up to spray automotive finishes, but here is an idea. Tint clear coat with either black paint or toner. Then spray some test pieces to get the density you want. Just like spraying candy paint. Done correctly the look should be flawless.

Way back before digital printers I used to spray all kinds of effects on vinyl.

Yeah, used to do that too. Still do to an extent, but this is going to involve a lot of vehicles, so trying to get a consistent look across many 100's of feet of vinyl might be a challenge. Makes me wonder if whomever is doing the fleet currently isn't spraying - the pattern on the vinyl is very random.

 

[Gino]

So, without lights or a flash, under normal daylight conditions, the black just looks black, but at night when lights hit it, it reflects gold ??

 

[letterman7]

Exactly. On their non-stealth cars, they're using a standard (what appears to be) 3M 071 yellow, with a faded gold to white name for the department. The gold in the name matches 064 gold. Images below.. pulled from their website. I've seen the cars on the road, but haven't actually had the chance to put a chart to the vinyl for a match, but the numbers above seem very close.

ghost, daylight

regular marked unit

 

[rjssigns]

Exactly. On their non-stealth cars, they're using a standard (what appears to be) 3M 071 yellow, with a faded gold to white name for the department. The gold in the name matches 064 gold.

It may be a screen process for that many vehicles. Just a shot in the dark but you might want to check with ROMO. http://www.romoinc.com/#brand-story-home

 

[Gino]

Different manufactures have black reflective that tend to shine silvery or golden. Ask for samples from all of them and do a test. As for quoting them, they're all about the same price.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

I do a lot of "ghosted" reflective. There are different ways to get different effects. Looking at the picture, it almost looks like black reflective that reflects gold. I believe Nikkalite is the one that looks gold. But if not, think about it the opposite way. Instead of trying to print black on gold reflective, print gold on black reflective. It will be very subdued during the day, but then it will show up gold at night or when light hits it.

 

[letterman7]

Gino, yeah, I'll have to do that. I think I have at least 6 of the manufacturer color charts here.. I'll have to get the pages and put a light on them to check.

Sellers... ooh... never thought about that. I'll have to do some test runs....

See? Thinking outside the box! Thanks, guys!

 

[letterman7]

Sellers may have nailed it for consistency reasons alone. Some preliminary testing printing on black (with a white point, like 3M) shows promising results. Much better than what the current cars are running. So kudos for thinking in a lateral fashion!

 

[eahicks]

I just don't get how any black can be called translucent, transparent, etc. Black is absence of color....absence of light. If light shines through, it isn't black. It's grey.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

I just don't get how any black can be called translucent, transparent, etc. Black is absence of color....absence of light. If light shines through, it isn't black. It's grey.

Yet customers (and salespeople) will argue and argue and argue about it.

 

[shoresigns]

I just don't get how any black can be called translucent, transparent, etc. Black is absence of color....absence of light. If light shines through, it isn't black. It's grey.

You're right, I can see some light reflecting off of every black vinyl swatch from every manufacturer we have here. Better rename them all to dark-dark-dark-grey!

 

[TammieH]

Most likely screen printed like traffic signs, translucent black ink over the gold reflective vinyl

http://www.grafixshoppe.com/police-car-image-gallery/stealth-vehicles?page=1

 

[letterman7]

Tammie - looks like you've stumbled on the supplier of the previous installer. See how the ink is blotchy on the Vian police car? It's exactly that way on the ones I have to match. Though I don't see how they make the topcoat, screen printed can't be ruled out.. but the topcoat finish isn't as uniform as a screen print would be. Regardless, using Seller's idea, printing a yellow/gold on a white point black so far has been successful - I just have to fine tune the color... and laminate many, many feet of the stuff!

 

[bob]

You're right, I can see some light reflecting off of every black vinyl swatch from every manufacturer we have here. Better rename them all to dark-dark-dark-grey!

Well there Dr. Science, what you see is specular reflection which is not the same thing as diffuse reflection which you do not see from black. Note that the reflection you see is the same color as the light source, not the color or the material. Exactly the same way as light that is reflected off water.

There isn't, by definition, transparent or translucent black. No way no how.

 

[eahicks]

Well there Dr. Science, what you see is specular reflection which is not the same thing as diffuse reflection which you do not see from black. Note that the reflection you see is the same color as the light source, not the color or the material. Exactly the same way as light that is reflected off water.

There isn't, by definition, transparent or translucent black. No way no how.

Thank you. Dr. Science...LOL. Yeah I was not talking about any blacks that reflect. I believe the entire subject was Translucent/Transparent black.

 

[Gino]

Haha....... you're all a funny bunch. The air between you and your computer screen is clear/transparent. You can't see it, no light reflects off of it , so it has NO color. This indicates that none of the light was reflected, rather it passed through the surface to be reflected by something else, beyond it.

The true absence of color is black. Black is not a color..... the absence of light [no color].... or a pigment [ink] that absorbs all light and doesn't reflect any back [hence, no color].

 

[Vinyldog]

Oracal has that stuff to tint headlights. 8300 I think?