Turn $20 into $5000 - is it possible?

[Dave Drane]

Freehandantheman, I have absolutely nothing against painted signs except when they are hand painted wrong. If you can't lay a design out properly then you need to get a computer. Don't you realise your "A"s and most other letters are mirrored?? Have you never studied the roman and block lettering and how "thick and thin" evolved? Ignorance is no excuse fo saying that "you are doing something unique". I'll say it again your hand painting sucks and if you are going to make decent money YOU need a COMPUTER!!

 

[Freehandan]

I never said I was Great, But I like to try and do Great things and think in Great ways. I don't know what you mean by back to front??? But I can paint how I feel, Without the limitations and technical aspects that it would take for someone to use the computer in the same way.
Your 'Thwarts' in commentation don't really have meaning or importance to anything other than to address me in a negative tone. I am curiouse to what your life experiences are to put you in that way. I bet Mad Max would rather have a hand lettered sign!
Funny thing is- Just look at some OLD signs and see that they have styles of type and fonts that will blow you away. There are some that have Never been reproduced and are one of a kind. Typography starts with art. And a typestyle is just a dirivative and formality associated with a prefference that is a working design tool. Some customers say.."Can yous tretch the first letter...." and so on. Because I am Not a computer, I Can do this. It makes a customer feel like an individual. I get repeatedly told how much people mention how much they like the lettering on the van by the guy I panted it for.
Nice, Bright and Friendly is Way better than a 'tax form' looking sign.

 

[Freehandan]

I think the 'A's look better that way. I don't agree on the small leg first. As with most letters, that looks better to me.
I am 1/2 Cyprian/Greek. The Romans used Greek slaves to do most of their art and sculpting. I have the authority to paint and do art via my decision. Jesus was Jewish and we still operate by a Roman calender and it says in god we trust on our money. You really don't have a point other than personal prefference and a backing from a Lynch Mob industry. Other than that, Art and Myself are timeless and governed by godlike power to create.
I Always have work. I always have people to stand by me as an artist. The van is still driving(both of them, Mine too) and doing business with the sign I painted. And the owner is happy. And I Am Still Working!!! 16 years after my first foam brushed, measured out, and painted sign.
Thanks for all the compliments.

 

[Dave Drane]

Start a new thread dude!!! You just don't get it. UP thin and down THICK. look at your lettering!!! Can't you see it!!!

 

[andy]

Either way I am driving arround in a 60$ van that no-one else could get for the price and effort.

Erm, do you know how much vinyl actually costs? The paint cost vs the vinyl cost is about equal... the only thing you've managed to do is spent twice as long farting about with your paint.... in vinyl the whole job from start to finish.... it's about two hours tops.

As for the trailers..... two of them with that design on... spend 500 quid on vinyl and you'd have a big pile of change... you could have fitted both in a day if you got your finger out.... that leaves you a whole day to have cut and taped the graphics.

I can't see any advantage here whatsoever.... materials aren't cheaper, production times aren't shorter.... finished results certainly aren't better.

Painting is a skill and a gift.... but it's wasted on work which could be produced more efficiently and more effectively using a modern approach.... save the paint for projects where computers can't reach.... leaf work, illustrations... that kind of stuff.

 

[astro8]

Freehand...as a third generation signwriter (and I'm quite sure Dave is as well) this stuff you've showed us hurts our eyes...it goes against everything we have ever been taught. If I were to write that on the side of some customers van, I would have been made to wipe it off... along with a good boot up the arse.

You seem to have enough enthusiasm and the basics of brush control, why not take it up a notch? Study letter forms and books on layout. People here will help, (some of the best signwriters, sign carvers & sign designers around frequent these boards)...but they won't feel so inclined if you keep raving on in an incoherent manson fashion about the evils of vinyl, computers and the world.

 

[SignManiac]

Sunday morning funnies no one can ever say Signs101 isn't entertaining!

 

[anotherdog]

Wow what a thread.

I started 30 years ago by doing handpainted signs, computers came along and made things a whole lot easier. I admire the skill it takes to do a good handpainted sign.

I cannot currently say I have the skills to do handpaint right now, I am thinking of putting in some practice to get back into it. I doubt it would make me much (if any) money, however few of us here on this forum are one-trick ponies. If it sells and we can do it we usually add it to the long list of things we do.

I am surprised at the vitrol here. I would save the fire for the discount vinyl guys that are sinking the whole ship.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Freehand...as a third generation signwriter (and I'm quite sure Dave is as well) this stuff you've showed us hurts our eyes...it goes against everything we have ever been taught. If I were to write that on the side of some customers van, I would have been made to wipe it off... along with a good boot up the arse.

You seem to have enough enthusiasm and the basics of brush control, why not take it up a notch? Study letter forms and books on layout. People here will help, (some of the best signwriters, sign carvers & sign designers around frequent these boards)...but they won't feel so inclined if you keep raving on in an incoherent manson fashion about the evils of vinyl, computers and the world.

I commend your encouragement, but, something tells me that isn't going to happen. After 16 years, one would expect to see some dramatic
improvement in those areas. If its was going to happen, it most likely would have already. It appears that V8 of enthusiasm has a few dead cylinders and is in dire need of a complete overhaul.

 

[Gino]

:ROFLMAO: I've seen and heard enough.

Next !!
​

 

[artbot]

no matter what the business model, always gear it towards scalability. if it starts looking like a trade, don't be frustrated if you are being compensated as the tradesman. i've been making anything 2d from art to signs for 30 years since i was 12. and have been at the top and the bottom. my observation was when i was at the top it was because there was an element of mass production. my girlfriend's father works for a graphics company in houston (they do lot's of large contracts gas station chains, trucking companies, airlines....lots of vinyl and screen printing) they just signed a 40 million dollar contract. why? mass production a fully scalable graphics factory.

so, can the sign business make you rich? apparently. but look for the niche that is scalable. and do it better than anyone in your county or in the country. but do it like it's the olympics. or don't do it at all. because there will be a competitor that will and that business will put you out of business.

 

[skdave]

Sorry my brush does not have spell check.

 

[Freehandan]

*Parthanon wall-7.5 hours(A little less), and $550( The guy died, he still owes me $5)
*Continental Cement Tower-3sides, 3days, $550. per day. I was recruited to do this job after painting a Really Sloppy! car lot sign. ( Must have been all the illustrations and paintings and airbrushing in my portfolio that sold them-)
That's all good. Like I would only show and do my best as an artist with signs and on a blog.
I don't feel that signs are a reason to act big. I act like I confiedently do because I CAN do, without the use of a machine. I have done 10 color, dimensional and ornate fonts on signs and glass with Fluerdilays and scrolls and pinstripes and gold and silver leaf. I can make a sign out of recycled garbage quickly that would take much cash and time for others. I have the proof and pics- on my ART Computer. I enjoy the time doing it as well so Time doesn't matter when your having fun. The containers..I made about 10,000% profit so I don't know what that plastic man was talking about. Slapstick, Ratrod and Kitsch Art are simple, casual and profitable while being free-spirited. Best for the oudoor/ratrace market. I've swiped jobs from 'Compies' by telling the customer their sign is a whore for making money that sits outside 24 hours a day all year.
I have painted the shirts on naked women, a flugetog float, tattooed vaginas- carved marble and wood, fabricated and sculpted metal and jewelry..painted boats...Portraits..landscapes..Even watercolors...and still do. Yes the cheap vinyl guys are my thorn and the most throwers of dirt. My cylinders allow me to run in different races. Why use all 8 for a stupid sign that 500 other people will do for the same or more just to help somebody make money. Most of the time doing something that will take away from my world, as many of you already have, but not are all thorns. Artists and Physicians used to walk side by side in society as far as importance. Do your history. Thanks to the computer, we now have a plasticine life where everyone thinks they are important because they are represented by an mathematical image. Glad some of you folks aren't really physicians!!! ( I am not against the computer for medical assistance to heal and survive, though.)
Fact of the matter is, I shined a light where many have pulled the covers over. ONce I leave this blog, If I am deemed not worthy by way of my truthfullness and some computer promoters default, I will continue on the same path as a perpetual, independent, infinate source and capacitor for what the world became responsible by. Meaning you all have benefited by finding out what is out here.
I have encountered the wize experience of some probobly awesome sign painters out there who I would like to meet one day. I have felt the presence of a few true humans with value in what I respect and try to practice. Thus, I am not alone. And in No Way, Less. Thank you and good night.

 

[SignManiac]

Dan, it's obvious you are passionate about being a true artist. Some of your work is really very good and I understand your intent is to preserve the art and craft of sign painting that is slowly being killed by the machines of the matrix.

I hope you will soon come to realize that we really do care and want to help you. I think you just need to tone down your enthusiasm a bit so that we can truly understand the message you are trying to share with your fellow patrons of the art.

Keep up the good work and don't get uptight by some of the comments. Everyone here wants you to be a part of this community. We can learn a lot from you too.

 

[JR's]

I would have been made to wipe it off... along with a good boot up the arse.

thats funny, I had to wipe alot of stuff off and I gut kicked in the arse even more. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

 

[iSign]

Dan, it's obvious you are passionate about being a true artist. Some of your work is really very good and I understand your intent is to preserve the art and craft of sign painting that is slowly being killed by the machines of the matrix.

I hope you will soon come to realize that we really do care and want to help you. I think you just need to tone down your enthusiasm a bit so that we can truly understand the message you are trying to share with your fellow patrons of the art.

Keep up the good work and don't get uptight by some of the comments. Everyone here wants you to be a part of this community. We can learn a lot from you too.

Maniac said it well.. although I wonder if he meant NOT everyone wants you to be a part... sure, you should stay if you like it here, but the fact is you have not acted like you desire the majority of the people here to accept you, and for that reason, I think it is unlikely that they will yet... and your attitude so far makes it seem as if you relish that thought...

For every 1000 vinyl sign professionals (using that last word loosely) I think there is only a very small handful on this site..

I understand (to a degree) the resentment & combative stance you exhibit against an industry that you feel has unfairly changed the visual landscape & your personal commercial opportunities for the worse..

But, once again I think the sector of the larger vinyl sign community that you take issue with is NOT the same sector represented here. Sure, if you act offensive, judgmental or close minded & you will attract conflict...

...but simply decide that you wish to enjoy this community, while allowing & encouraging the community to enjoy your presence here, and that will be the experience going forward.

Maybe maniac really meant "Everyone here wants you to be a part of this community." ...myself? I'm still on the fence. I wasted years supporting, accepting, encouraging & tolerating someone who did not make the same contribution in return. I don't do that anymore.

 

[artsnletters]

Here is a van I lettered for a van(!) I blurred the numbers WITH the Computer! (Hey!...I could be.. an Ace! with ..THE Computer!)
I spent $60 on some new 1shot so I wouldn't have any globbs to deal with.
In return for lettering this van I received a 1998 E350 van that I use for work. The guy wanted paint because he owns the van, if someone steals it, they wont get the paint off, and he likes that it shows hand-crafted service and pride. He feels that it makes him and his business look more established and shows a sense of integrity.
The van I received is only worth about a thousand with tlc. But I have been driving it since Feb.
I paint the letters/signs on my own van with a paint that I can wash off, so when I get bored and want to change my market sense..........

I agree with the others that the A's look funny and iffen it was me, i would have used some cello tape or fineline to square the letters on "HANDYMAN". I like the script somewhat and the other stuff is passable. On the whole, when i heard your rantings and ravings i actually expected much more. In a kindler , gentler time long ago when we only had channels 2-13 you would have been called a "snapper". I feel ya man and get where you're comin from but time's they are a changin.....i wonder how long air dry alkyd enamels will be available (or any good) period....
Tim

 

[Freehandan]

Well, I hope I am blowing the subject out of the water with contributions on the technical part of My facet of the trade. I do however, don't understand the whole...Want to be part of the eschelon thing. Take it or leave it-I am here to talk about signs. Specificaly hand painted signs. Fit in?? Sector??? Acceptance?? With all due respect< I am a member music and even a band is not a marriage. I am representing, even in a bold way, the small handfull of people on here you talk about. I see no reason to be honest and truthfull about my whole sign experience all togeather. I do- find a "power" in what signs are about, but it is about putting out a finished product that lures people to the door with currency. I will always learn. Teacher one day-student the next. And so on. But I really don't know what you expect from a point of view. Sculpted to me is governed. I have not cursed, I don't think, In any post.
I am going to start a thread about cursing in signs. Right now.

 

[iSign]

don't understand the whole...Want to be part of the eschelon thing. Take it or leave it-I am here to talk about signs. Specificaly hand painted signs. Fit in?? Sector??? Acceptance??

well, in case you've forgotten you almost got yourself banned from this site in your first week, as well as positioning yourself to have more people offended then interested in your contributions here.. it's near anarchy.. but it's still a community & you get out what you put in... good to see you putting a little less 'tude & a little more tolerance already... maybe you will prove the admin's right in letting you stay...

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Chopper what is meant by the statement I went to sign school , yes the market here comes to mind ..very few have even commercial art even much less advertising school of any kind, No offence to craftspeople that have earned the ranks of knowing what a good layout even looks like and many have either taught or been self taught.

Another reason I said that was many people get into this trade because they learned Adobe in high school, got to by a plotter & a PC some software and BAM call them self sign shops. ..and I'm tired of competing with them for the last 25 years and they still not learned.

But in Orlando very few know what advertising signage is suppose to look like although they call them sign shops, really alot of the good signage is made out of town, that is seen in town.
As far as $350 doors this was common before PCs and even $650 per set of doors was common with a outstanding layout color combos, maybe with gold, and still in some markets with a few craftspeople it is very possible, in fact a friend I know does very near that, and does outstanding work that customers are very glad to pay and rehire again and again even in todays economy.