UCJV330 Pull Back Printing (Multi Layer printing)

[Goatshaver]

I've never tried to print a 2nd pass by using the crop marks, so I don't know how well that works.
One thing I know other people will do for the roll back on shorter prints is to take a core and cut a slit in it length wise and insert/pinch the end of the material inside the slit to add some weight to the material. In theory this should help with the bunching up, but I have never done this personally..

For stickers I use General Formulations GF-214/216, it's cheap and I have no print issues or bunching up in the machine. It's probably not ideal for automotive or anything long term, but I mostly print product labels/stickers.

Thank you for helping me along with this! The only way to go really high with them is really doing 2 passes. 1 Pass will only get you so high and then you either need to do overprints, which will screw with your 4 color layer, or do 2 pass with pull back or by reading the crop marks.
So this morning I did 5 layers on the first pass (BUILD, WHITE, BUILD, WHITE, 4 COLOR) and the second pass Clear overprint x2. Which gave a really nice high raised print.

Still gotta work on pull back or crop mark method. Pull back is really a pain since I have to watch to make sure the material doesn't bunch up in front of the roller. But You helped me get way further than any of the techs have on this.

 

[Goatshaver]

I've never tried to print a 2nd pass by using the crop marks, so I don't know how well that works.
One thing I know other people will do for the roll back on shorter prints is to take a core and cut a slit in it length wise and insert/pinch the end of the material inside the slit to add some weight to the material. In theory this should help with the bunching up, but I have never done this personally..

For stickers I use General Formulations GF-214/216, it's cheap and I have no print issues or bunching up in the machine. It's probably not ideal for automotive or anything long term, but I mostly print product labels/stickers.

Do you have any tips or tricks do you use for pull back printing?
Best option I've found is moving my outer rollers in more than normal. Instead of being on the very outermost grit rollers I'm moving them in to the next set. So they're in about 4-5 inches from the edge of the material. Even still I see it bunching up a little bit but much less than if the rollers were all the way out on the edges.

I was looking to see if Mimaki has any instructional videos on pull back printing. Funny enough, they don't, what a surprise. Just from my short experience with it I'm going to make the assumption that not a lot of people use this feature because it has to be setup just so perfectly.

 

[Kemik]

Do you have any tips or tricks do you use for pull back printing?
Best option I've found is moving my outer rollers in more than normal. Instead of being on the very outermost grit rollers I'm moving them in to the next set. So they're in about 4-5 inches from the edge of the material. Even still I see it bunching up a little bit but much less than if the rollers were all the way out on the edges.

I was looking to see if Mimaki has any instructional videos on pull back printing. Funny enough, they don't, what a surprise. Just from my short experience with it I'm going to make the assumption that not a lot of people use this feature because it has to be setup just so perfectly.

I mostly try to avoid roll back, unless the customer insists on having both white and clear.
When doing the design, I will try to keep in mind that the alignment will not be perfect, and do shorter prints so there is less chance of misalignment.
The material I use does not have any issue with bunching up.

 

[Goatshaver]

I mostly try to avoid roll back, unless the customer insists on having both white and clear.
When doing the design, I will try to keep in mind that the alignment will not be perfect, and do shorter prints so there is less chance of misalignment.
The material I use does not have any issue with bunching up.

Yeah same, I don't want to do it unless I absolutely have to. I typically don't do more than 24" in the feed direction for prints.
I'm still trying to figure out why I'm having this bunching issue. I emailed Mimaki suggesting they should allow all rollers down in the middle with low pressure on pullback printing. A tech responded and said he thought it was possible and would get back to me. You'd think a Mimaki tech would practically know these things inside and out.

 

[RonnyCrack]

I'm going to try to run some stuff from Cut Master to my FC9000 but it's not ideal. Can't wait for Onyx to update and support the 330 so I can move it all over to that workflow that I use for my S40600.

I say the cutting is different because vinyl and lam are all one thickness and the blade holder should just rest on the vinyl to hold it down to the cut strip right at the cut and with a small amount of blade showing, where as the raised UV prints the depth will vary along the print so have to setup the blades the opposite. Have way more blade out and use the pressure to control it all that way you can catch those raised areas instead of the blade move up due to the holder moving over the raised area. Hopefully that makes sense.

I'm definitely not used to making so many adjustments but I'm also still learning a lot about this 330.

I know it's late, I don't believe anybody said this yet, but if you put your pinch rollers down manually as soon as it lifts them up (just pull the purple arm back over to the right) you can pullback print with all rollers down, which leads to a way better alignment. I have pretty solid success on up to 12-16in of media length. And it's much more consistent when calibrating in the layers panel when you're using all pinch rollers. If only they would just include an update in the firmware to allow them to stay down, like Roland's can. And it's funny because then it puts them down and rolls all over your prints in order to cut them out. There are a lot of stupid oversights that could be fixed with a firmware update. Like being able to actually consistently start a print or cut at a set origin. Or making the entire grit roller gritty so you can be more lenient with your roller placement.

 

[Goatshaver]

I know it's late, I don't believe anybody said this yet, but if you put your pinch rollers down manually as soon as it lifts them up (just pull the purple arm back over to the right) you can pullback print with all rollers down, which leads to a way better alignment. I have pretty solid success on up to 12-16in of media length. And it's much more consistent when calibrating in the layers panel when you're using all pinch rollers. If only they would just include an update in the firmware to allow them to stay down, like Roland's can. And it's funny because then it puts them down and rolls all over your prints in order to cut them out. There are a lot of stupid oversights that could be fixed with a firmware update. Like being able to actually consistently start a print or cut at a set origin. Or making the entire grit roller gritty so you can be more lenient with your roller placement.

I might have to try that, maybe just pause the print and flip them over. Just seems silly to not have the option to have them down to me. I actually emailed Mimaki support on suggesting a firmware change to do that for the rollers cause I think it would be really helpful to lots of folks.

 

[RonnyCrack]

I might have to try that, maybe just pause the print and flip them over. Just seems silly to not have the option to have them down to me. I actually emailed Mimaki support on suggesting a firmware change to do that for the rollers cause I think it would be really helpful to lots of folks.

You want to flip them down as soon as it puts them up (I just follow behind the tool arm and do it as soon as it lifts them) so that it pulls the vinyl back *with all* the rollers.

Where can I also email them? Maybe there's strength in numbers?

The major downside is having to do this between every print.

 

[Goatshaver]

I paused and flipped them and it cancelled my job. haha...I still have my cover on my machine so I'll have to take off the safety switches so I can try that.
I'd utilize this more if it was easier to do, but I just don't seem to have much luck with pullback prints on my machine for some reason I have yet to figure out.

You can email them here in the Feedback and Complaints. https://mimaki.com/inquiry/

 

[RonnyCrack]

I paused and flipped them and it cancelled my job. haha...I still have my cover on my machine so I'll have to take off the safety switches so I can try that.
I'd utilize this more if it was easier to do, but I just don't seem to have much luck with pullback prints on my machine for some reason I have yet to figure out.

You can email them here in the Feedback and Complaints. https://mimaki.com/inquiry/

Oh dude, I totally forgot that yeah the safety clips have to be out lol. The tech that delivered my printer took them out day 1 so I forgot that's even a thing. They're really easy to take off and I was told if you ever lose them you can just throw a piece of cardboard in the slot it goes into (which you can also do if you don't want to take them off just to try this).

I'm fairly certain pull back printing is useless (at least on a large amount of machines) without all rollers down. I have the same issue and I see people all over Facebook facing the same thing.

FWIW here's a picture just to show how accurate it is when they're all down. If I only had the ends down, it'd be at least a mm or two off, and up to a whole cm+ off if I do like 15-20inches of length.

 

[Goatshaver]

Oh dude, I totally forgot that yeah the safety clips have to be out lol. The tech that delivered my printer took them out day 1 so I forgot that's even a thing. They're really easy to take off and I was told if you ever lose them you can just throw a piece of cardboard in the slot it goes into (which you can also do if you don't want to take them off just to try this).

I'm fairly certain pull back printing is useless (at least on a large amount of machines) without all rollers down. I have the same issue and I see people all over Facebook facing the same thing.

FWIW here's a picture just to show how accurate it is when they're all down. If I only had the ends down, it'd be at least a mm or two off, and up to a whole cm+ off if I do like 15-20inches of length.

I don't mind keeping the door on because the new models have a light inside.

I actually got a pullback to work perfectly today....has never happened. Maybe just cause I'm using a different material than I normally have, but either way I'm happy to have it work without any issues. (for now)
(I use Substance 3.75mil matte on about 90% of my jobs on this right now, it works so nice and prints really nice)

 

[sad_makaronchi]

Been trying to experiment with layered printing and I wanted to try a print with white and clear. However it cannot print white and clear in the same pass so it has to retract the print (after printing white & 4 color) and then do the clear.

What's happening is the original print is fine then it pulls back to origin when it starts to print the vinyl gets bunched up in front of the rollers on the left hand side. (it lifts the middle sets of rollers for the pull back.) I can't seem to figure out why this is happening.

My only thought is when the print gets to a certain point there is tension on the media roll again and because it's only using the outer rollers one side my be slightly loose and the other side has tension to the roll and when it goes to advance the print it skews and gets bunched up. Not rally sure. I've tried it 3x and the same exact thing happens on the same side every time I've tried it.

Hopefully someone has done this and can lend me some tips on how to get this to work correctly.

that middle rollers don't lifted you need change 362 parameter "ReFeedPRoff" to 1 in service menu

 

[Goatshaver]

One thing I did notice about pull back printing is that the gloss doesn't lay down the same was as doing gloss in a single pass.
I did these tops with a build of color/white and then pull back to add gloss, the difference is noticeable and I'm not sure if it's due to the elevated print or something else.

 

[RonnyCrack]

I don't mind keeping the door on because the new models have a light inside.

I actually got a pullback to work perfectly today....has never happened. Maybe just cause I'm using a different material than I normally have, but either way I'm happy to have it work without any issues. (for now)
(I use Substance 3.75mil matte on about 90% of my jobs on this right now, it works so nice and prints really nice)

Looks like whatever you did you nailed it (and if you ever need a nice glossy material, I've been using a lot of HP Permanent Gloss Adhesive from Lexjet lately.

that middle rollers don't lifted you need change 362 parameter "ReFeedPRoff" to 1 in service menu

Would this be in the #Cut or #Adjust or which area? I'm not at my machine currently. Or is this only for 330s? Will this exist on a 300 series?

 

[sad_makaronchi]

Похоже, что вы справились со своей задачей (а если вам когда-нибудь понадобится красивый глянцевый материал, в последнее время я часто использую клей HP Permanent Gloss Adhesive от Lexjet).

Это будет в #Cut или #Adjust или в какой области? Я сейчас не у своей машины. Или это только для 330-х? Будет ли это в серии 300?

i have ucjv300, it in #PARAMETER - #OP PARAMETER

 

[RonnyCrack]

i have ucjv300, it in #PARAMETER - #OP PARAMETER

Holy hell, yep, worked for me. Thank you so much! This is a game changer. Literally saves minutes every print. Not to mention I can actually walk away from the prints!

Makes me wonder how many other fixes are in the parameters and not mentioned in the user manual.

 

[sad_makaronchi]

Holy hell, yep, worked for me. Thank you so much! This is a game changer. Literally saves minutes every print. Not to mention I can actually walk away from the prints!

Makes me wonder how many other fixes are in the parameters and not mentioned in the user manual.

Even maintenence manual does not have most parameters meaning

 

[RonnyCrack]

Even maintenence manual does not have most parameters meaning

Do you have any idea why my UCJV cannot find the first registration marks when pull-back printing? It always searches above the first mark, and then I get a mark detect error and have to manually place the laser. I only noticed this happening after I swapped out my Y motor (which should have nothing to do with the feed/X axis)

When doing regular color print, or color+gloss in one pass, it can find the first registration mark every time, no problems.

Thank you again!

 

[sad_makaronchi]

Do you have any idea why my UCJV cannot find the first registration marks when pull-back printing? It always searches above the first mark, and then I get a mark detect error and have to manually place the laser. I only noticed this happening after I swapped out my Y motor (which should have nothing to do with the feed/X axis)

When doing regular color print, or color+gloss in one pass, it can find the first registration mark every time, no problems.

Thank you again!

Point offset for cutting tool shifts because of mark not add in pull-back layer i think

 

[sad_makaronchi]

Do you have any idea why my UCJV cannot find the first registration marks when pull-back printing? It always searches above the first mark, and then I get a mark detect error and have to manually place the laser. I only noticed this happening after I swapped out my Y motor (which should have nothing to do with the feed/X axis)

When doing regular color print, or color+gloss in one pass, it can find the first registration mark every time, no problems.

Thank you again!

Print white layer, then pull-back media and print clear + cmyk

 

[RonnyCrack]

Print white layer, then pull-back media and print clear + cmyk

I'm currently printing color >pullback then multiple overprints of clear, so unfortunately no way to do this without multiple overprints of color.

Also, it is strange because if I cut with no registration marks, it cuts where it needs to be (no more than a mm or so out of alignment) but I like to use the reg marks for smaller designs/stickers.

I will look into blade offset. It also looks like there is a setting for registration mark offset in the Image Edit page. Not sure if this offsets the placement of the marks, or the reading of the marks, but I try to will play with it today and see.