Using the term "die cut" vinyl lettering

[threeputt]

I guess I'm being picky, but one thing that you see on this forum is a "stone in my shoe", so to speak.

Why is it that otherwise knowlegable signmakers continually refer to cut vinyl letters as "die cut"?

At our shop, we simply say "machine cut" which to my mind is more accurate. I do realize that there are letters punched or stamped out by dies, and these are properly called die cut letters.

But most of the postings I see here are speaking of letters cut by machines such as Summa cutters or other brands.

A small matter, true, but it seems like in the interest of our trade we should try and be more precision in our terminology.

 

[eahicks]

YES. Cut vinyl is the normal term around here. And if it's printed vinyl with a shape, simply 'contour cut decals' is the term.

 

[Bigdawg]

Yes you are being picky

But we actually call it contour cut lettering. I think because die-cut is a throw back to the old days, it's a term most people understand. Now if you want to drive me crazy call the decals "stickers."

 

[Gino]

If you go to the very basic meaning of the word, then perhaps, it is the wrong term. However, they're like rotary die cutters, in that they use the blade as it's cylindrical die, hence making everything uniform from start to finish. Pulling things through and back and forth and having a moving carriage, just makes it more versatile.

 

[Chasez]

I think bringing up the topic is important. If the trade is using the wrong terminology then it gets passed to the end user, which then gets brought to another shop, they quote for what was asked and then the whole thing blows up for the company. Now saying that I'm speaking for all the terms in the trade not just the "die cut". We've run into this many times where designers will spec something, it gets quoted then installed then the client comes back after saying that's not what it is then there being a big fight about the terms used.

If we can eliminate the spread of wrong terms when talking to our clients, it may stop the spread.

My two cents and bit of a rant on the topic

Chaz

EDIT: I should say, our terms for plotter cut vinyl are "cut vinyl" and printed vinyl with a cut is "print & cut vinyl"

 

[Andy D]

My "stone in my shoe" is when professional printers call decals stickers
Stickers are what kids play with!

But yeah, die cut is a weird way to refer to plotted vinyl (which is what we always call it)

 

[TrustMoore_TN]

For our company, we refer to it as die-cut vinyl lettering because our clients often work with other print (offset, packaging, labeling) providers use the term "die-cut". Die Cut makes sense to them without further explanation. But overall it depends on the client and project. When we take on smaller projects that are non-exhibit type work, I revert back to my old sign shop vocabulary and may use print/cut vinyl, contour cut vinyl lettering, etc. We simply communicate what the product is in the terms that they can understand, which we usually ascertain in our initial consultations with them. Regardless of what the client calls it, we are consistent with our internal "name" for the product so that the production staff knows what they are producing.

 

[eahicks]

Yes you are being picky

But we actually call it contour cut lettering. I think because die-cut is a throw back to the old days, it's a term most people understand. Now if you want to drive me crazy call the decals "stickers."

Yes, it is quite amusing when we get a call from someone asking <in southern accent> "da ya'll make stickers?" I tell them "we make custom cut vinyl decals and labels".

 

[Andy D]

Yes, it is quite amusing when we get a call from someone asking <in southern accent> "da ya'll make stickers?" I tell them "we make custom cut vinyl decals and labels".

What's worse is, I used to work at a shop where the owners fell @ss backwards into printing, they and most
of my co-workers referred to decals as stickers. That job didn't last long, I had to get the hell out of there.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

I understand that one, but I worked for quite a few years in an industry that did use dies to cut with. The first time I saw the term in the sign business, I was pretty sure they meant plotter cut, but I asked anyway. On the rare occasions when I see it that way now, I usually just ignore the words around the "cut" part.

 

[myront]

We don't use the term die cut. RTA (ready to apply) for off the shelf colored vinyls. Any printed vinyl is "shape-cut" or simply plotted. Decals can be "punch-cut" too. And a coroplast sign is not a BANNER!

 

[eahicks]

We don't use the term die cut. RTA (ready to apply) for off the shelf colored vinyls. Any printed vinyl is "shape-cut" or simply plotted. Decals can be "punch-cut" too. And a coroplast sign is not a BANNER!

This too....get lots of requests for a "vinyl sign"...

"Well, our lettering for the sign is vinyl.....you want that on what material?"
"Vinyl sign, that you can roll."
"So, you want a banner?"
"Ok, if that's what it's called, and you can roll it up".
"Yes."

And​ then....
A year passes after making the banner.... customer brings it back in for a lettering change. It's folded into an 8" x 10" size.

 

[scott pagan]

we still have thermal die cut presses that are used for very large quantity runs. they're wrong-reading (mirror image) coated aluminum stamped with a sharp raised edge. heat, pressure, and hold to allow the individual sheets placed under to melt/cut graphic.

we also have (but don't use anymore) the large steel rule die presses for stamping out POP materials. the die plates are wood blocks with steel blades in the shape of the cut with foam inserts to assist in popping out the media from matrix (job and scrap).

the main drawback is upfront costs of having the "dies" (plates) made. they're not resizable like a digital file to a plotter, so not efficient for low quantities but are a real time saver money maker on large run jobs. in mere seconds it can spit out multiple letter/shape images that would take many minutes to cut by even our fastest plotters. and with the heat seal cut edges, it's a breeze to weed

back to main topic... we call most cut vinyl graphics "machine cut graphics" vs "die-cut".

 

[GaSouthpaw]

This too....get lots of requests for a "vinyl sign"...

"Well, our lettering for the sign is vinyl.....you want that on what material?"
"Vinyl sign, that you can roll."
"So, you want a banner?"
"Ok, if that's what it's called, and you can roll it up".
"Yes."

And​ then....
A year passes after making the banner.... customer brings it back in for a lettering change. It's folded into an 8" x 10" size.

Yep. Maddening.

 

[royster13]

we still have thermal die cut presses that are used for very large quantity runs. they're wrong-reading (mirror image) coated aluminum stamped with a sharp raised edge. heat, pressure, and hold to allow the individual sheets placed under to melt/cut graphic.

we also have (but don't use anymore) the large steel rule die presses for stamping out POP materials. the die plates are wood blocks with steel blades in the shape of the cut with foam inserts to assist in popping out the media from matrix (job and scrap).

the main drawback is upfront costs of having the "dies" (plates) made. they're not resizable like a digital file to a plotter, so not efficient for low quantities but are a real time saver money maker on large run jobs. in mere seconds it can spit out multiple letter/shape images that would take many minutes to cut by even our fastest plotters. and with the heat seal cut edges, it's a breeze to weed

back to main topic... we call most cut vinyl graphics "machine cut graphics" vs "die-cut".

My fridge magnet supplier has 6,000+ steel rule dies on file....About 1,000 are stock and the rest are custom done over the years....

As far as thermal dies, Stouse still uses heated zinc. dies and letter presses for large runs requiring "die cutting"....

 

[Tim Aucoin]

I keep it simple and call it "custom cut vinyl", or simply "cut vinyl". Sure, we still need to explain it to some people. When they just don't get it, I send them a little video!

 

[ddarlak]

stick·er ˈstikər noun

an adhesive label or notice, generally printed or illustrated.


de·cal ˈdēkal noun

a design prepared on special paper for transfer onto another surface such as glass, porcelain, or metal.


sticker/decal doesn't bother me, but i agree, diecut kinda drives me nuts....

 

[T_K]

I picked up "die-cut" from my first boss in the industry. He even would specify to employees that it's not exactly accurate, but that it communicates to the customer.

Since that time, I've been working on refining my language to be more specific. I'll use terms like RTA or contour cut because I think that's more accurate language.

For me, I've got mixed ideas on the use of industry-specific language with customers. On one hand, as long as they understand what we're discussing, does it really matter? On the other hand, isn't part of my job to educate my customers so that we can communicate accurately and efficiently?

 

[GAC05]

What I hear quite a bit now days:
How much to wrap my car?
What do you have in mind?
3/4" stripe down both sides.

We used to install die cut vinyl graphics kits from Trim Line and then 3M in the old days.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[James Burke]

Most die cut vinyl is thermal kiss-cut. It's done with a heated die plate. It's extremely fast and is ideal for extremely small letters like you see on deck lids and rear bumpers (auto dealers branding)

Learn about it here:

https://www.owosso.com/Products/MagnesiumDies/ThermalKissCutting.aspx

Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnR9K_g47Yw

JB