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UV flatbed?

anotherdog

anotherdog

New Member
I know this thread has been beated to death, I have gone through the archives and still have some questions;

I'm looking for a UV flatbed to supplement my exisiting roland vp540 solvent. Sub $100k (ish), good colour and durability, decent front to back register and not too tough learning curve. I have a 20x20 space to drop it in, but access is through a normal width door (not taking the wall out to get it in).

Printing mainly coroplast, but also gator, styrene and whatever else blows in the door.

I'll be going to Graphics Canada in November, but want to know the questions I should be asking before I start kicking tyres.

Thank you in advance.
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
i just got back from the sgia and my favorite flatbed options were first both CET's. the hybrid was very well designed, great price, great visibility, small footprint. the CET flatbed was awesome too. $85k entry on both, and you can upgrade the speed as your shop's needs for speed increases.

the image was great and had the best adhesion that saw at the show. this ink is like a formica counter top.

the dilli/anapernna machines were really nice too. a bit tall. i'm short and the feed was at least chest high. great white ink, but still not much better than CET. and with those machines you are dealing with a mammoth company and you won't get the personal service. the guys at CET were the most laid back, knowledgeable, helpful. ...they just seemed like they love being in the printer business. i must have spoke with them for 30 minutes about options and they never once seemed like i was asking too many questions. the sales people in the oce' booth seemed to me to have never printed a sign in their life. like they pulled some car salesmen, gave them a brochure and were told to sell those table thingy's.

the fuji/oce machine looked a bit delicate for sign making, so did the hp fb's. those were beautifully designed but "looked" delicate to me. maybe i'm wrong. the gandi was very big/expensve with sparkle paint and chrome... tacky. do in need to wear a gold chain and sunglasses when i run this thing? embarrassing. ...i like the military issue construction of the CET printers, the people, the layout of the mechanicals, the ink, the price. the booth was full of people while many other booths were empty with flatbeds. the only thing that i didn't like about the cet was the shutters were noisy. but i figure i'd just put sound deadeners on them.
 
Last edited:
anotherdog

anotherdog

New Member
thank you, thats just what i'm looking for.
I went for the solvent Roland VP540 because its a workhorse, nothing fancy and not fast. I'm looking for the same out of a UV machine...alas I don't quite trust the Roland UV.
 
CS-SignSupply-TT

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
UV options

anotherdog said:
thank you, thats just what i'm looking for.
I went for the solvent Roland VP540 because its a workhorse, nothing fancy and not fast. I'm looking for the same out of a UV machine...alas I don't quite trust the Roland UV.
Click to expand...

Your assessment of the Roland is right on. At this point, Roland views their UV as a prototyping machine for the packaging industry. But, fear not, Roland WILL develop and deliver a UV machine for the mom and pop sign shop.
 
CS-SignSupply-TT

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
UV options at SGIA

artbot said:
i just got back from the sgia and my favorite flatbed options were first both CET's. the hybrid was very well designed, great price, great visibility, small footprint. the CET flatbed was awesome too. $85k entry on both, and you can upgrade the speed as your shop's needs for speed increases.

the image was great and had the best adhesion that saw at the show. this ink is like a formica counter top.

the dilli/anapernna machines were really nice too. a bit tall. i'm short and the feed was at least chest high. great white ink, but still not much better than CET. and with those machines you are dealing with a mammoth company and you won't get the personal service. the guys at CET were the most laid back, knowledgeable, helpful. ...they just seemed like they love being in the printer business. i must have spoke with them for 30 minutes about options and they never once seemed like i was asking too many questions. the sales people in the oce' booth seemed to me to have never printed a sign in their life. like they pulled some car salesmen, gave them a brochure and were told to sell those table thingy's.

the fuji/oce machine looked a bit delicate for sign making, so did the hp fb's. those were beautifully designed but "looked" delicate to me. maybe i'm wrong. the gandi was very big/expensve with sparkle paint and chrome... tacky. do in need to wear a gold chain and sunglasses when i run this thing? embarrassing. ...i like the military issue construction of the CET printers, the people, the layout of the mechanicals, the ink, the price. the booth was full of people while many other booths were empty with flatbeds. the only thing that i didn't like about the cet was the shutters were noisy. but i figure i'd just put sound deadeners on them.
Click to expand...

Hey artbot, did you get a chance to look at the FLORA UV?
 
petepaz

petepaz

New Member
we just purchased the Roland LEJ640 uv machine. not set up and running yet, should be good to go by the first week in nov. but it does what we need it to do and the price was right. i will keep you posted on the results once we are running.
part of our decision was based on our previous history with Roland and the ease of using the machines. also when we run on roll material we can put it in our xc or vp machines to cut
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
no, i didn't see the flora... after standing right in front of so many flatbeds, you get the idea of how extremely similar they all are. like cnc routers... with a machines that has a learning curve, touchy maintanence issues, the very possible "oops" i think i crashed the head in to whatever... you need local reps that speak ENGLISH that can talk you through and get you running again. the price is right, the manufacturer is a phone call away, the guts of the machine are simple, the image quality is perfect, the adhesion is top notch. ...if flora had US reps, parts distribution, and were priced competitively then maybe it would be an option.

also, it seems that these CET machines are becoming a common entry level printer. there will be soon a community of owners that can trade information much like rolands, or mimakis.
 
CS-SignSupply-TT

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
$85,000 =/- UV flatbeds

artbot said:
no, i didn't see the flora... after standing right in front of so many flatbeds, you get the idea of how extremely similar they all are. like cnc routers... with a machines that has a learning curve, touchy maintanence issues, the very possible "oops" i think i crashed the head in to whatever... you need local reps that speak ENGLISH that can talk you through and get you running again. the price is right, the manufacturer is a phone call away, the guts of the machine are simple, the image quality is perfect, the adhesion is top notch. ...if flora had US reps, parts distribution, and were priced competitively then maybe it would be an option.

also, it seems that these CET machines are becoming a common entry level printer. there will be soon a community of owners that can trade information much like rolands, or mimakis.
Click to expand...

artbot, CiberSupply and FLORA take your comments ("...if flora had US reps, parts distribution, and were priced competitively then maybe it would be an option...") very seriously. We are endeavoring to establish the training and service required to support this equipment and provide a top notch ownership experience. :thankyou:
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
I know some very agressive deals were made at this show.

Anotherdog, my unsolicited opinion is to take the time before going to the show, go check out machines that are up and running in people's shops that you are interested in, beg borrow and plead to have them print a few samples for you on the machines you are interested in and watch them do it, watch the setup,watch the printing...(bring pizza and beer..or whatever) ask questions there is much more value in my opinion to talk with actual owner/operators and see the equipment operating in real working conditions versus at a show operated by a salesman in a suit (not that some of them don't know their stuff) but very few have the hours of experience running the machine as a real operator, unless they have experience in a shop environment prior to their current sales position....and then go to the show with your ducks in a row financial arrangements made and you can make a SMOKING DEAL and save yourself a good chunk of money.

I was amazed in regards the deals being made and low prices being offered and then lowered and lowered again... then incentives /"goodies" (supplies, freight/crating, etc) were being liberally thrown in to close deals and one salesman literally followed me down the aisle as I walked on continuing to lower his price and offering more and more 'goodies', even though he knew i was just inquiring and not even looking to actually make a purchase for myself.

On the last day of the show... they were MOTIVATED to sell equipment to say the least. But I can't blame them, having been in those shoes myself at one point in my career I'd much rather recrate it and have it delivered to a customer than recrated and sent back to my warehouse...sitting in inventory.
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
...what is the service worth? well on an inexpensive machine, usually the issue is "you get a machine but for this price that's all you get".

if you could get a machine that you know you can affordably keep running for six years, and over those six years keep adding upgrades to make it as fast as the new base models coming out of that time, what is that worth? i'd say about $40k over the course of ownership. so theoretically, if you get this with an $85k printer, you are paying $45k for the machine and $40k for insurance/non-obsolescence/lack of downtime/and peace of mind. i hope gone are the days of OEM overpriced triple marked up parts, printers that are designed to be too slow in the next two years, un-intelligible owner's manuals, chipped ink sets. the whole printer business has become a pain in the *** over the last decade.
 
anotherdog

anotherdog

New Member
This process is certainly a lot muddier than getting our solvent printer.

I have little doubt its the right way to go... but I have to sell the wife on $85k of leased debt. THAT is the hard sell.
 
CS-SignSupply-TT

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
Perhaps the interim solution is "subbing" the UV flatbed work until the cash flow justifies the investment in equipment. In the meantime, you can sub the work to one of the signs101.com merchant members and get excellent results, great prices, and virtually no headaches. Keeps your wife happy too!
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
@brassman one thing that "xenon" is a 3d image file. i'd run for my life. there are some chinese manufacturers that are really truly making some product. for a small shop, i'd suggest sticking with a converted solvent flat bed. parts will be cheap, large user community for the mutoh or whatever that is on top of the table etc.

here's a youtube of one such manufacturer.. but there are tons of these shops. one thing i found strange is at the sgia mutoh booth they had a 44" flatbed just like the ones shown in so many chinese websites. but the printer was marked with a sign "prototype". really. that's a prototype? that thing has been built in so many chinese garages by now and they finally get the idea to invent a mutoh flatbed? eureka!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsG8cX5hZ8s&feature=channel_video_title
 
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