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UV vs Printed Vinyl Pros and Cons
- Thread starter ams
- Start date
White Haus
Not a Newbie
They both have their place and we use both methods daily depending on the circumstances.
UV - Better for coroplast, sintra, styrene signs. (Aka either indoor or temporary signage)
Laminated solvent prints - Better for ACM, sign faces, other expensive substrates (Aka permanent outdoor signage)
The key is using both tools accordingly - using a combination of both printing methods allows you to cover almost all the bases. I say almost because dye-sub is the only missing link.
UV - Better for coroplast, sintra, styrene signs. (Aka either indoor or temporary signage)
Laminated solvent prints - Better for ACM, sign faces, other expensive substrates (Aka permanent outdoor signage)
The key is using both tools accordingly - using a combination of both printing methods allows you to cover almost all the bases. I say almost because dye-sub is the only missing link.
As mentioned... Both have their uses .
All our real estate is direct print - we usually screen print the signs... Then direct print the name/variable information later .Saves a ton on printer ink... And your not wasting vinyl.
Can print on a 48 x 96 piece of Coro in 5-10 minutes on a UV.
On a roll to roll... Have to load the vinyl, print the vinyl, laminate (or not) the vinyl...cut down the vinyl, apply the vinyl, trim the vinyl again... A 5-10 minute job is now a 30-40 minute job, that costs an extra $20-30 in vinyl...
Now of course if your printing 20 4x8s, you can load a roll... Hit print and walk away, it'll take less time to apply the vinyl and trim than it would to stand at the flatbed constantly loading sheets and hitting print.
We find direct to substrate isnt as glossy. Roll to roll printing looks more like screen printing, nice glossy texture. Direct to substrate is more of a dull color...
They both have their uses .Generally short term we flatbed, long term we roll to roll. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.... They're both different tools for different jobs.
A direct to substrate can save you lots of money. But I wouldn't call it a replacement for a roll to roll either.
All our real estate is direct print - we usually screen print the signs... Then direct print the name/variable information later .Saves a ton on printer ink... And your not wasting vinyl.
Can print on a 48 x 96 piece of Coro in 5-10 minutes on a UV.
On a roll to roll... Have to load the vinyl, print the vinyl, laminate (or not) the vinyl...cut down the vinyl, apply the vinyl, trim the vinyl again... A 5-10 minute job is now a 30-40 minute job, that costs an extra $20-30 in vinyl...
Now of course if your printing 20 4x8s, you can load a roll... Hit print and walk away, it'll take less time to apply the vinyl and trim than it would to stand at the flatbed constantly loading sheets and hitting print.
We find direct to substrate isnt as glossy. Roll to roll printing looks more like screen printing, nice glossy texture. Direct to substrate is more of a dull color...
They both have their uses .Generally short term we flatbed, long term we roll to roll. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.... They're both different tools for different jobs.
A direct to substrate can save you lots of money. But I wouldn't call it a replacement for a roll to roll either.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
The other thing missing from UV is long term uv resistance. This is the primary reason why after buying a FB750 brand new 6mos ago we are moving on to the new Latex Hybrid. We use our Flatbed now as it works great for a lot of jobs but we can't trust it for everything
DerbyCitySignGuy
New Member
I'm a big fan of UV direct print. Especially LED.
If we can do a direct print, we do it. Outdoor lifespan of UV ink is generally pretty good (around 3-5 years, as Pauly mentioned). Depending on your droplet size, you can get VERY high quality prints by printing second surface to glass or acrylic and don't have to worry about the ink texture. Day/night prints are easy and quick.
If you have a good UV flatbed or hybrid, you can put a lot of material through one. The GS3250 (depending on the file) can do a 4' x 8' sheet in 2-3 minutes. With a good operator, you can get close to 20 sheets an hour on certain jobs. White ink slows it down considerably, but you're still looking at incredible speeds.
The trade off is more expensive maintenance, more expensive inks, but way less labor costs.
If we can do a direct print, we do it. Outdoor lifespan of UV ink is generally pretty good (around 3-5 years, as Pauly mentioned). Depending on your droplet size, you can get VERY high quality prints by printing second surface to glass or acrylic and don't have to worry about the ink texture. Day/night prints are easy and quick.
If you have a good UV flatbed or hybrid, you can put a lot of material through one. The GS3250 (depending on the file) can do a 4' x 8' sheet in 2-3 minutes. With a good operator, you can get close to 20 sheets an hour on certain jobs. White ink slows it down considerably, but you're still looking at incredible speeds.
The trade off is more expensive maintenance, more expensive inks, but way less labor costs.
Last edited:
Bly
New Member
It's great to have different machines for different jobs.
The UV has expanded our services and sped up turnaround, especially with the flatbed cutter.
Anything going onto a board now we usually use the flatbed. Or anything that needs white ink.
Fast turnaround stickers and some backlits esp unlaminated - we use the latex.
Wraps, wallpapers, posters and photos - our Epson eco solvent is the best option now.
The UV has expanded our services and sped up turnaround, especially with the flatbed cutter.
Anything going onto a board now we usually use the flatbed. Or anything that needs white ink.
Fast turnaround stickers and some backlits esp unlaminated - we use the latex.
Wraps, wallpapers, posters and photos - our Epson eco solvent is the best option now.
eahicks
Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
I don't get this statement.I would think you want to direct print 20 4x8s. I can do 1,000 other things while the printer is running one board, when its done, load another and go do another 1,000 things. Why would anyone be standing there waiting for a board to finish so they can load another? I would rather operate this way then run a roll of vinyl, cut it to pieces, trim them and lay them one at a time. Seems to me if you are doing 20 quantities of anything, flatbed is the only way to go.
CanuckSigns
Active Member
Yes and no, say your flatbed takes 8 minutes to print a 4x8 sheet, you load the sheet, hit print, prep the next sheet to go on (wipe it down) and you have maybe 5 minutes left before you need to remove the sheet and start all over again, from a productivity point of view, what can you really accomplish in 5 minutes or less, you probably can't even answer an email in that time.
with a roll to roll printer, you load it, print and have 6-8 hours to get other stuff done while the printer is working unattended. come in the next morning and use a rolls roller table to mount all 20 sheets in about 2-3 hours
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they each have their pros and cons. The flatbed really shines because it removes the cost of the vinyl and laminate from the equation. and if you can get one that is fast enough to print a sheet in less than 5 minutes then you can keep an employee busy loading/unloading/prepping the machine in an assembly line like fashion, if it takes longer than that there is going to be idle employee phone checking time.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
I'll take 3 Hours of production total at a higher margin vs 1.25 days worth of work at a lower margin
equippaint
Active Member
With this math its not even 3 hours to do 20 sheets by flatbed. You have to wipe down the sheets whether you flatbed or mount a print too. If you print you have to move the material off the printer, onto the laminator, then cut it down before you can mount it. A decent calendared vinyl and laminate will be close to $1/sq ft not including ink. So if ink costs are the same, straight away the mounted print is costing you $32 which is in the ballpark cost of a labor hour in a smaller shop. So even if a flatbed took 1 hour per sheet and a guy sat there the whole time you would still be money ahead if you aren't counting machine depreciation.
CanuckSigns
Active Member
Both options have around 3 man hours invested in them, I'm not counting print time for the roll to roll because it doesn't tie up an employee while it's working.
At the end of the day you have to decide what setup works best for your shop, I assume anyone who has a flatbed also has a roll to roll machine because there is no one size fits all.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
We have both and we find no matter what if the durability and quality fits direct to substrate is far superior in efficiency than mounted vinyl.
equippaint
Active Member
The UV prints look somewhat dull to me. I don't fully remember but I want to say that when I was a kid and we screen printed with UV ink and drier that the prints were just as vibrant as air dry inks. Why is it different with a printer?
And 2ct, as far as ink durability, how much of this do you think this has to do with flatbeds primarily printing on cheap substrates? From recollection, UV ink held up really well but its only as good as its weakest link.
And 2ct, as far as ink durability, how much of this do you think this has to do with flatbeds primarily printing on cheap substrates? From recollection, UV ink held up really well but its only as good as its weakest link.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
For us we have only had UV for 6 months. Vibrancy hasn't been a problem on our fb... it seems very bright and glossy depending on substrate and curing protocol. We have experienced some ink fade in 6 months on coroplast, but that is a cheap substrate and not designed for long term usage.
We have other signs on ACP that look great 6mons on.
I can load a roll to roll, hit print, then spend the next 7.5 hours doing other work. Takes maybe 20-30 minutes to laminate/trim it down to 4 x 8s....Then it takes maybe 2-5 minutes to mount each one, depending on how heavy the source material is. If it's coro...we dont even bother laminating, since it's a temp sign. So we're talking less than 2 hours of manpower to mount 20 4 x 8.s of course you have to factor in your roll to roll being used... but this is just for simplicity sake.
Printing the coro... When its a temp, under a year sign... you generally dont need to clean coro when mounting it. A small particle of dust here or there on a temp sign doesnt hurt nothing. However if theres particles on a uv print... the print will have white specs in it. So you have to clean... load, print... to get good quality on our FB500, you have to use indoor signage at least. I never really timed it, but lets say it takes 8 minutes.
I usually load a sheet... hit print, then try to find something to do. Whether its cut vinyl / weed it, laminate some rolls... etc. So yes, all 8 minutes isnt wasted... But I'm never back at the exact time a print finishes. Its pretty much always faster for us to do roll to roll on bigger signs.
Smaller signs is another thing... we can load 3 18x30 signs at once, hit print... then within a minute or two load 3 more... etc etc. it beats registering and mounting 300 signs any day of the week.
They both have their upsides/Downsides. It's kind of like asking someone which is better... a Wrench, or a hammer. Different tools for different uses. for the most part... Our flatbed is running 6-7 hours a day, and our roll to roll is about the same. We get some spurts where we have 20+ rolls to print, or 500+ Coro signs to print... But they both get a decent amount of use.
I find the Flatbed prints text way smoother/cleaner than our solvent. I like how the flatbed is cured (Enough to ship at least) instantly, and we can handle/touch the stuff and ship it out same day, while our solvent sits for a night. I like how if I need to print 5 small labels... I just rip them to the flatbed, throw in a scrap piece of vinyl and hit print... Much, much easier to do than the roll to roll. I find both machines very useful, and I think if we lost either one... half of our business would go down the drain. So if its in your budget... get both.
Printing the coro... When its a temp, under a year sign... you generally dont need to clean coro when mounting it. A small particle of dust here or there on a temp sign doesnt hurt nothing. However if theres particles on a uv print... the print will have white specs in it. So you have to clean... load, print... to get good quality on our FB500, you have to use indoor signage at least. I never really timed it, but lets say it takes 8 minutes.
I usually load a sheet... hit print, then try to find something to do. Whether its cut vinyl / weed it, laminate some rolls... etc. So yes, all 8 minutes isnt wasted... But I'm never back at the exact time a print finishes. Its pretty much always faster for us to do roll to roll on bigger signs.
Smaller signs is another thing... we can load 3 18x30 signs at once, hit print... then within a minute or two load 3 more... etc etc. it beats registering and mounting 300 signs any day of the week.
They both have their upsides/Downsides. It's kind of like asking someone which is better... a Wrench, or a hammer. Different tools for different uses. for the most part... Our flatbed is running 6-7 hours a day, and our roll to roll is about the same. We get some spurts where we have 20+ rolls to print, or 500+ Coro signs to print... But they both get a decent amount of use.
I find the Flatbed prints text way smoother/cleaner than our solvent. I like how the flatbed is cured (Enough to ship at least) instantly, and we can handle/touch the stuff and ship it out same day, while our solvent sits for a night. I like how if I need to print 5 small labels... I just rip them to the flatbed, throw in a scrap piece of vinyl and hit print... Much, much easier to do than the roll to roll. I find both machines very useful, and I think if we lost either one... half of our business would go down the drain. So if its in your budget... get both.
Pauly
Printrade.com.au
It's how the ink droplets sit on the media. UV actually sit above the media while eco and latex penetrate into the media. because the UV sits on top of the media, it
cannot give a glossy finish as it wont be a smooth surface vs eco & latex.
And if your Flatbed prints are dull, then i'd be checking your profiles. My prints are amazing.
CalverleyDesign
President - The Calverley Group
Which
CalverleyDesign
President - The Calverley Group
Which Flatbed do you have? & RIP?