vector images needed

[Dave Drane]

This is free. May need a bit of cleaning up but it is still free to steal.
http://office.microsoft.com/clipart/results.aspx?lc=en-us&Scope=MC&Query=Champagne

 

[iSign]

I would certainly think that it is better to use my time to send this guy a file (of my original artwork) to help him out instead of spending much more time & energy bashing him for asking.

I bash.
I won't deny it, & it ain't cool... I won't deny that either.

I also recognize that your comments may not have been specifically directed at me even though I was quoted, so I'm not defending myself against your comment specifically, but I want to point out that regarding the choice of helping "him" or spending energy bashing "him" I was careful NOT to bash Spury because I don't have any reason to, since I don't know what really went down.

On the other hand, multi came in here with both barrels blazing dropping judgements on this forum & many of it's participants in general, & with no real leg to stand on backing up his attitude. I took issue with that because I like to hang out here in my free time, & bashing this place & it's people is like spitting in MY bar. It may not really be my bar, but if I hang out here, I don't appreciate BS when I see it, so throw BS around... you're bound to get some back (like I am now ...which is fine)

I only think energy spent posting is wasted if nobody reads it. You can never have everyone agree, but if people read what I think, that serves my purpose in posting. Dan might agree, Rat Fink might not, I am just writing MY opinions, I'm not expecting everyone to agree.

...anytime I would help someone out, some jerk off like yourself would start crying about it being unfair because it was costing you sales of your top quality artwork.

I would never consider that unfair, or a financial threat... what do you mean "jerk off like yourself "? ..I am a 100% original jerk-off... there ain't any others "like me"

Besides why the attitude? I don't think I singled you out...
...why are you so damned angry all the time with people who take a stand against this uppity attitude....?

..well now you wen't and singled me out, didn't you? Believe me, the honest-to-God FACT is that I'm NOT angry when I engage in verbal sparring. When I see weak assumptions, or unsupported suppositions, & incorrect deductions, or any other form of unsubstantiated allegations hanging out there in cyberspace waiting to be challenged... it's like ripe fruit on a low branch... it seems senseless to just walk away if it challenges my own beliefs, so I state my views, attempt to refute the views of others in question... & I consider it to be a valuable excercise of my mind. (& I think it's FUN!... so like I said, I do "Bash" now & then. Take it, or leave it, or Bash back... I don't care... but if you think I'm angry, you just don't knoiw me :Big Laugh )

 

[Fred Weiss]

There have been MANY times (prob hundreds) I have helped out a fellow sign guy/girl by sending them original artwork. I get paid by my customers - I do not ask to get paid to take 5 minutes out of my schedule to draw a balloon to help out a friend.



If I were to see a request for balloons, I would remember that I drew up some colorful balloons for a day care sign a few years ago. I would not mind forwarding that design to help someone out for free.

I understand that file sharing is a big problem, but sometimes you need to stop judging everyone as a theif.

I would certainly think that it is better to use my time to send this guy a file (of my original artwork) to help him out instead of spending much more time & energy bashing him for asking.

R.F.

I see your point but you should also be seeing mine. They are:

• First and foremost, the purpose of this forum is to promote professional growth among those who come here in search of it. Allowing file swapping or even the appearance of file swapping of copyrighted material is the exact opposite of what is appropriate in such a venue.
• Secondly, while I am personally offended by the widespread practice of "helping a fellow signmaker out" by providing files at the expense of their creators, I can do nothing more than post my point of view when the occasion arises in hopes of raising the awareness of those who will see my point. What you or anyone else choose to do in private is between you and your value system. But it has no place in a public forum.
• Third, most of the people being hurt by file swapping are little guys ... not the big providers. I happen to be one of those little guys. I've had my work show up mixed into the 250,000 vector art images you can get on ebay. I even had a guy walk in my store and try to sell me my own work. One of the artists from whom I license and publish work now earns his primary living driving a truck.
• Finally, for every guy like you who has something to give and the full right to do so, there are 1,000 who do it illegally and in total disregard of the law or even an understanding of their own stake in preventing such goings on. When someone such as yourself posts in defense of this kind of activity, you add fuel to the fire for all those seeking to rationalize their little acts of petty larceny that altogether add up to a mountain of loss of both income and livelihood for many artists.

I don't think Spury was bashed in particular. He asked for help and help was offered. He then crossed a line and brought the free part into it and was replied to in a non-judgmental manner by me. He totally crossed my tolerance level when he so graciously thanked those who responded to his request and then received lots of well deserved criticism.

Spury also is well aware (or should be) of the rules against making these kinds of requests here and, IMHO, cared less about his future reputation here than the $5 or $10 he saved.

He certainly didn't care very much about all the help he has received here in response to direct posts he has made concerning how to do this or that when he did not know from experience and which resulted in him being able to complete jobs and earn income from them.

 

[multifarious]

so like I said, I do "Bash" now & then. Take it, or leave it, or Bash back... I don't care... but if you think I'm angry, you just don't knoiw me :Big Laugh )

I don't think its a big jump from insulting statement (or bashing as you put it) to anger do you? And at best I had only one barrel, at it was only half cocked...so unless you have an argument besides you quit because you suck (paraphrase) why don't you keep your BS opinion to yourself. (Just bashing, no anger here)

 

[Techman]

One day I found out how to hand draw/trace a photo, scan it and make it vectored on my own. I made up a nice collection of my own in case I need it some day. Well, i deleted it all. Why? because having drawings laying around not used is a waste of time handling it all. And because I can draw scan and trace something myself now faster than it takes to hunt it down. (usually).. How much time have we used to look thru a catalog for that one perfect piece?

So what is my point. It is this. When someone comes in asking for clip art.. Why not refer them to a tutorial on how to make their own clips in addition to refering them to a place to purchase it? I think someday there will be enuf nice new clips around to purchase them from these newly made artists to include in some professional collections. I likely would have just donated what I deleted if I had a place to put some of those one of a kind never again used pieces.

I think that solution would be benefit Freds art bizz, the image of this board, and avoid the clip art bash fest with the associated gnashing of teeth.

That in my mind is what a 101 level course is all about...

Techman

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

above i did post the suggestion of going through the process of drawing, scanning, and vectorizing your own art as i truly believe it is a skill that everyone in this industry should develop.

on a sidenote but definitely related to this topic, I believe that many people are unaware that the swapping of artwork that you did not create is illegal, and many others are aware of it but do not understand it to be the same with collections of commercial clip art they have purchased. i have met some people who once they have purchased a collection truly believe that it is there's to do with as they please. i do not know where this misunderstanding comes from, either from simply not reading the agreements, or preconceived wrong ideas that once you buy something it is yours to do with as you please, but in most cases i do not believe people set out to do something illegal..they are just not informed.

it is important for everyone in this industry to understand what the restrictions are for each and every collection that you may own or you may find yourself in a lawsuit as some have different restrictions and limitations of use than others.

I have seen many "logos" that are simply just a piece of vector art from one of the many popular collections and the customer who purchases this "logo" may in fact have no ownership of it at all and in addition how disappointed is he going to be when he is driving down the road and sees someone else with the same "logo" or the piece of art incorporated into someone elses signage? just something to think about as not only could it be embarrasing and uncomfortable in some cases it may very well be a violation of the agreement that you accepted when you purchased a collection. just another reason why it is in your benefit to develop some basic art skills if you have none and if you do to continue to improve on the skills that you have so that you can create your own, unique art so that you do not run into these uncomfortable situations. I own a tremendous amount of clip art as well as reference art books but it is rare that i use them as they are, i use them for reference and create my own version. None of our customers want to see someone else with the same artistic elements on their signage as they have on their own.

i also think as Fred has noted that many people see no harm in sharing, swapping, stealing...whatever you want to call it, their collections of clipart as they think that these collections are from gigantic companies like MS (not that makes it right but in some people's minds i think it makes it easier to justify) when in more cases than not you are taking potential profits from small individual artists not unlike ourselves. look at how many people just from this forum alone make a portion of their income from making their artwork available to us, SteveO, Fred, John Deaton, and i am sure there are many others...these are not big companies, these are individuals with small businesses with the same bills and struggles we all face, along with families of their own to feed, they are just like you and me.