Very annoyed.

[Gino]

To some of you late comers.

I thought we were talking about your average customer who comes in with a vehicle, you price it out and as in the OP's case, he keeps losing.

Nowhere am I talking about the validity of branding fleets or the quality of materials or workmanship being inferior. In fact, I mentioned this in my last post that the lesser grade products are for just that.

We're a sign company and we manufacture and furnish all kinds of signs, That includes customers wanting a quick down & dirty make-shift sign. You can't always dictate what materials are to be used for someone selling a house or boat. They don't need a superior sign with a great design. How frickin' hard is it to create a good eye catching low end sign ??

The other thing is..... back to my question about 4 vehicles a day/5 days a week....... no way are you quoting 20 top notch designs for that many cars and getting each and every customer.... or in design fees alone, you'd be doing $100,000 a week plus your other work and just the instals and such. I don't think so. Again, if you can do 20 in a week it would appear to me, you're short-changing some people if you're only spending 2 hours or less on a $5,000 design.

Again, to me it sounds like a bunch of people talking about totally different ends of the spectrum and hoping something will stick somewhere.
​

 

[Techman]

a phone call or an email with a photo is not an info call. it is a speculation call.
The plan of attack is to turn that spec call into an info call. That leads to an appointment.
The appointment turns into a sale. Proceeding in any other order will always lead back to a speculation sales call and into the mere gamble on the odds..

The call is the chance to make a pivot. You pivot away from a spec call into an info call.
Step two is profile the client. This is where you get to know his needs and wants and what he will pay and why he really wants you to make letters for him.
If all he needs is a $10 no parking sign then away he goes.
If he needs a $2,900 bux 3D panel then you know this is your job.

After you discover his true needs and you articulate those needs he discovers you are the only one to meet his needs. You praise yourself on the ability to find his needs and your super human ability to meet those needs. Now you can charge whatever you want. The sale depends on nothing other than that. All the hype about the best materials and best service mean nothing. Every one has the best materials and the best service. In the fitness world every personal trainer is a world champion. Why is it the some are rich and some just land a client or two. Same in the sign world. Every uses the same basic materials. Thus the client could not care less. But, if you show you are meeting his needs and relieving his pain you will win every time.

Then prompt for the sale.
It has no bearing on price. It has every thing to do with meeting needs quickly and accurately.

Playing the odds with a spec call leads to this kind of thread showing great disappointment and frustration. Twenty four people will post with twenty four different ways to make a sale. Twenty two posts contain one or two of the four above steps. One will contain three of the steps and one will have all four. Get all four and your odds of getting the sale increase geometrically. Use just one step and watch the other "cheaper" guy win them all. It is not a matter of win some lose some. It is a matter of screening your potential clients to remove the chaff.

Pivot Profile Praise Prompt. Works first time every time. Make the right choice and the right time.

 

[PMac]

Fact: Now, more than ever, there are Sign/Graphic shops everywhere.
It used to be that a steady hand and brush ruled the sign world. Not everyone could aquire this talent. It took lots of time and practice to become an expert.
Digital printing/cutting equipment and creative software have almost eliminated those people. Anyone can do sign work now. And the worst part is, that there are some people out there that are happy working for their beer money.

Well, we have families to feed.

Another fact: There will always be someone doing is less than you.

Stick to your guns. Keep searching for those long term clients that will never work with anyone else but you. They will come with time. They will never question your quotes because they just know you are a fair person and you always take care of their needs.
Get a good handfull of those clients and you'll do alright.

 

[klingsdesigns]

Thats what keeps me making money is the return customers. Some of them just drop vehicles off and dont ask questions, just tell me to let them know when to pick up. I love them customers. 8 years ago I bent over backwords to get jobs. I have learned its not that way anymore. Now i bend over backwords for returning customers. They are the best! 90% of my business now is dealing with other business owners. 8 years ago it was probably 10%

 

[Biker Scout]

it would appear to me, you're short-changing some people if you're only spending 2 hours or less on a $5,000 design.

I think I did pretty good for only two hours, from start to finish.

Sign Here... Thank You!

 

[klingsdesigns]

not too shabby!

 

[Techman]

Thats what keeps me making money is the return customers

Absolutely and completely right. The renewed customer is the one who makes your profit. Building up a renewing client list is a secret. This is the results of using a good marketing model and a good business model. We cannot do it all. Some work makes big bucks. Go for the work that makes big bucks and make a model out of it.

 

[CanuckSigns]

only one I know of is Avery and we don't use anything from them. been using Gerber 220 series since the 1980's and have yet to have an issue.

you really use cast vinyl ONLY in your shop? including yard signs, banners, and other signs that don't call for it? I would go broke using 220 up here for everything!

 

[Jillbeans]

I am sick of the tire kickers as well, who only care about price, yet think you're a psychic who can tell exactly what they want with their vague emails and calls.
As for educating them, well, they aren't my customers until they give me money. Why enlighten them to make it easier on the hacks?
Love....Jill

 

[OldPaint]

anyone who puts HP VINYL on all vehicles..............dont know crap)))) there i said it. HP vinyl is for NEW VEHICLES, and those that are show only and are not WORKING VEHICLES.
i do HP VINYL......on new pickups/box vans/vans, up to 2-4 yrs old. after that THE PAINT on a used vehicle is past half life. also depends on the WORK these vehicle will be subjected to. air conditioning heating/plumbing/tow truck cabs have little abuse. dump truck bodies, tree service vehicles, roofing, heavy construction will need thicker vinyl to withstand the abuse they will get........thus CALENDERED VINYL WILL hold up better!!!!!!!
NOW YOU KNOW..............

 

[klingsdesigns]

I am sick of the tire kickers as well, who only care about price, yet think you're a psychic who can tell exactly what they want with their vague emails and calls.
As for educating them, well, they aren't my customers until they give me money. Why enlighten them to make it easier on the hacks?
Love....Jill

I am glad its not just me.

 

[bikecomedy]

Just closed a estimate only... for $270 more than the competitions bid. Plus $150 dollars in dining credit. Build value and then negotiate. Used the Gino method explained in the 7:51am post here. Thanks Gino!! Dinner Gino? It's in California though.

 

[royster13]

I am left with the impression that most folks here are "sign makers" and not "sales folks".....Part of making a sale is too understand what a client's needs are.....What problem are they trying to solve.....I bet when most of you get a call you dive right into what kid of sign the caller wants.....The 1st questions should be related to what their problem is and then you can offer solutions.....Once they know you can solve their problem, price should become secondary....

 

[bikecomedy]

Royster13 This does not sound like the normal you. Are you alright?

 

[Techman]

What problem are they trying to solve.....I bet when most of you get a call you dive right into what kid of sign the caller wants.....The 1st questions should be related to what their problem is and then you can offer solutions.....Once they know you can solve their problem, price should become secondary....

And there it is. We have it right here.

The perfect way to profile a client..

 

[Jillbeans]

Unfortunately, most potential clients don't let you get a word in edgewise, unless it has the word "dollars" in it.
Most potential clients don't know what they hell they are looking for.
"Do you sell those letters that stick on-"
"Do you sell those plastic signs for out in the yard?"
"Do you have a set of my DOT numbers in stock?"
"I have an old sign can you repaint it? Size? I dunno"
"How much for magnetic signs"
"How much for one of those plastic signs"
"I need you to paint my window can you do it today? (-0°) How much?"
As soon as they hear anything over $25 they sh!t a ring around themselves and go elsewhere.
Even with emails, and I am better in writing than on the phone.
As soon as the price is written down, they go out to find it cheaper. And they do. Not half as good, but still...

 

[SignManiac]

[/INDENT]That is the only reason why people come to me... because I can. I'm that fast.

I have no signage out front, I'm a Design Studio first and foremost with 2 bays and a workshop. If they are coming to me, they already know my work and that I'm willing to bend over backwards for them.

The 3 tiered approach doesn't work for me personally, because I'm not about to do 3 different layouts and have them pick one. I'm sorry, I'm not going to put any effort into an awesome design, an OK design and just some type only to have them pick out the type. I'd be pissed, especially knowing they like the really nice one. I only have so much genius per day before I get burnt out if that happened to me day in and day out. Boring. Not why I'm a designer. I'd rather them be totally happy with my stuff. They don't have to know I only buy cast material. It's not on their radar, why should they care? But .14¢ vs .28¢ per sq. ft. isn't going to break me, especially when I just use a flat rate for vinyl sq. ft. charge, and the design and install fees are mandatory.

The showing of inferior product is actually a good sales tactic here in Las Vegas. Plenty of heat to destroy calendared vinyl on a business window facing the sun or on a vehicle. Inside sign, temporary sign? 651 all day.

I too fall into this category and operate pretty much the same way. But in order to do this, you have to be able to back it up. Which isn't hard to do in this day and age with all the hack shops out there. Design sells and that's what works and in my case. That alone eliminates the need to explain the difference between materials used. My portfolio, reputation takes care of the selling. I just reminded a good customer yesterday that it's very simple, "You get what you pay for"

 

[Hero Signs]

Here is my spin. I try to relate to something that people know. Most people have looked at flooring and seen that tile varies in quality, look & design. I tell them we are no different, everything here is SQFT price plus time for labor and it is easy math. You have see the plain terra cotta tile and also the individual marble mosaics, right? So what type of look are wanting to achieve. I have not had anyone yet not be able to verbalize what they truly want after this analogy.

 

[jen.reelez]

As simple as this: "I know the price speaks for the quality of my products/services"

Then I just laugh at it :Big Laugh

It's obvious why clients say that they will get the cheaper price from others,
it's an indirect way of asking a (very big) discount, just a normal reality in life.

Well, just wanna thank them anyway for giving time and
effort to contact me and inquire of my service..

 

[wildside]

anyone who puts HP VINYL on all vehicles..............dont know crap)))) there i said it. HP vinyl is for NEW VEHICLES, and those that are show only and are not WORKING VEHICLES.
i do HP VINYL......on new pickups/box vans/vans, up to 2-4 yrs old. after that THE PAINT on a used vehicle is past half life.

might be in the top 10 of dumbest things i have heard or read this decade