Vinyl Express III 72" eco solvent

[Jim Doggett]

i don't think we can paint all chinese, korean, etc oem's as "worse" than japanese oems ...

We can to a very significant degree, I believe, given the profound cultural differences I've experienced.

In China, the driving force in manufacture is cost containment. They'll add better parts, if strongly insisted upon, but with what feels like a degree of disbelief. They simply do not understand why we would choose to pay more for the "same" thing. In China, I'm blown away with the low prices.

Meanwhile in trips to Japan, the driving force in manufacture is better (best quality / features) above all else. The culture is innovative to an extent like no place I've ever been. The products exude quality and durability. In Japan, I'm blown away with the quality.

In South Korea, the drive is evolving to quality / price. They strive to equal quality, of Japan mostly, at a lower cost. So I am indeed blown away by quality and price of South Korean manufacture, but as yet do not see the drive to innovate that is so ingrained in Japanese culture, and products -- which are stark in their quality, durability and feature difference.

IMO ...

 

[chris190]

Mutoh makes a great EcoSol printer, many of which we sell under our Vinyl Express brand, which is registered trademark. The Chinese have little regard for trademarks, registered or otherwise ... but maybe Fred can help us out here if it's being infringed.

Thousands of folks can attest to the quality and value of the products we sell. But please do not confuse them with rip-offs, which it seems this Chinese-made printer clearly is. And even if it looks similar, the internals are not. Printers made in Japan are light-years beyond those cheaply pieced together in China.

Caveat emptor, chris190. Failing that, I think CheapVehicleWrap was spot-on with: "Good luck with this. I'm SURE you're going to need it." Indeed. Much luck in fact, based on our experience.

Hi Jim,

whats the model # or name for the Mutoh that you guys sell as vinyl express?and how wide and how much if you don't mind me asking ?




"Thousands of folks can attest to the quality and value of the products we sell. But please do not confuse them with rip-offs, which it seems this Chinese-made printer clearly is."

So you're saying that this "vinyl express III" printer is a rip off of some original Vinyl Express printer that you guys are selling?



btw I have a 32" vinyl express cutter r32 which I bought from you guys about a year ago. It works well, great value, but pretty raw (can't talk on the phone near it, when cutting), but regardless I am happy with it and you guys were very nice and helpfull

 

[artbot]

eventually it depends on the printer being purchased. such as the one i decided on, it was an individual design (not a copy) spec'd out with the finest parts. the veil has been lifted as far as the printer costing a fortune. after market parts, after market inks, chinese oems. there will be printers on the market for first world countries and high end shops, there will be printers for second world countries and start up garage sign guys. i believe the age of a brand new $6000 60" dx5 printer is here. the machines are just too simple to warrant $20,000 price tags.

 

[chris190]

eventually it depends on the printer being purchased. such as the one i decided on, it was an individual design (not a copy) spec'd out with the finest parts. the veil has been lifted as far as the printer costing a fortune. after market parts, after market inks, chinese oems. there will be printers on the market for first world countries and high end shops, there will be printers for second world countries and start up garage sign guys. i believe the age of a brand new $6000 60" dx5 printer is here. the machines are just too simple to warrant $20,000 price tags.

You got me really interested in that Wit Color Ultra 9000 I like its outside design too, only thing I got to find out how much this will run me with shipping and everything to Chicago. I wrote yesterday a bunch of companies that sell it to gimmie some prices but no response yet.

I'm probably going to choose between the ultra 9000 and this vinyl express...... my budget is $8000 tops (shipping included) so hopefully I'll have enough got the ultra 9000

Thanks for all the good info artbot

 

[chris190]

Artbot, I also wanted to ask you ... what's you're take on the Main Top 5.3 RIP that these printers come with ?

 

[Jim Doggett]

Hi Jim,

whats the model # or name for the Mutoh that you guys sell as vinyl express?and how wide and how much if you don't mind me asking ?




"Thousands of folks can attest to the quality and value of the products we sell. But please do not confuse them with rip-offs, which it seems this Chinese-made printer clearly is."

So you're saying that this "vinyl express III" printer is a rip off of some original Vinyl Express printer that you guys are selling?



btw I have a 32" vinyl express cutter r32 which I bought from you guys about a year ago. It works well, great value, but pretty raw (can't talk on the phone near it, when cutting), but regardless I am happy with it and you guys were very nice and helpfull

Sorry, I cannot "publish" that info, in re: Mutoh printers. Agreements usually include such language :^) Call 800.699.5512 and ask to speak with printer sales. They can answer more questions than I can, including what deals du jour are being handed down from the sales director.

Glad you like your R Series. Definitely the better of the Chinese cutters, since some "insisting" might have come into play ... LOL

But even then, Qe and Q Series are a class above (by orders of magnitude) for demands that go beyond cutting Cast or Intermediate vinyl, which is pretty easy-to-cut stuff.

Thanks!

 

[artbot]

did you see the pdf of the bema-jet in this thread? it seems to be the same design as the express copy. if you go this route i'd have a pre-emptive approach. get a price on the printer and spare parts. if things like slider boards are cheap ($150?) get some extra stuff for the years ahead. and expect the possibility of when this printer shows up needing to maybe fine tune the platen height, or capping station position. all stuff that a guy with a spare afternoon can do. hell when i got my first brand new roland, i had to fine tune the platen height. they just popped it in there. these printers function on specific heights and distances that need to be calibrated. and all the screws and spacers and firmware is there to get it perfect. whether it shows up perfect or not.

one last thing, ask for the oem to send you an english owner's manual. i was very concerned about this. but i was then amazed at how fantastic the owners manual was for my chinese printer model. for one, it was in perfect english. (the mimaki manual is a tragedy) plus this chinese manual was more of a service manual. discussed how to dial in and fine tune how to alter driver specs and modify head characteristics. with tons and tons of color photos. you might find that say the wit-color manual is a ten page pdf in broken english, you never know.

 

[Jim Doggett]

So you're saying that this "vinyl express III" printer is a rip off of some original Vinyl Express printer that you guys are selling?

Oops! That. It's a ripoff of our brand: Vinyl Express(r). The printer is likely a reverse engineered product (buy Japanese printer, tear apart, and "copy" with cheesy internals, cheaper externals, that are kinda "styled" in a way that looks remarkably like a Japanese printer ... :^)

 

[artbot]

just thought of one other thing. i've in many conversations with chinese oem's that the tech for dual dx5's is not as mature. you'll see this in the japanese oems as well. the firmware and the boards that drive 16 channels is a great load for the system that hasn't had the years of debugging. although there are many many chinese printers oems that offer dual dx5s i'd be wary. because in conversation they admit that the single dx5 models are super stable (stable is a word in chinese manufacturing for not buggy). of course the reason for this is probably because as japanese oems' refine their firmware to drive the dx5 those mods are applied to this now "open source" firmware. as dual dx5s become common place amongst japanese models, that firmware will be "super stable". i had a conversation with a wit-color engineer, they hope to introduce a field upgradable model that the buyer starts with a single dx5 and then can work his way up to a quad dx5. they mentioned this is a few years in the future but were hoping to have that as one of their sales advantages.

that being said, this wit-color ultra 9000 is getting some stunning dual dx5 output running at 720x360 1 pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHt4jlRPaA&feature=player_embedded

 

[chris190]

just thought of one other thing. i've in many conversations with chinese oem's that the tech for dual dx5's is not as mature. you'll see this in the japanese oems as well. the firmware and the boards that drive 16 channels is a great load for the system that hasn't had the years of debugging. although there are many many chinese printers oems that offer dual dx5s i'd be wary. because in conversation they admit that the single dx5 models are super stable (stable is a word in chinese manufacturing for not buggy). of course the reason for this is probably because as japanese oems' refine their firmware to drive the dx5 those mods are applied to this now "open source" firmware. as dual dx5s become common place amongst japanese models, that firmware will be "super stable". i had a conversation with a wit-color engineer, they hope to introduce a field upgradable model that the buyer starts with a single dx5 and then can work his way up to a quad dx5. they mentioned this is a few years in the future but were hoping to have that as one of their sales advantages.

that being said, this wit-color ultra 9000 is getting some stunning dual dx5 output running at 720x360 1 pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHt4jlRPaA&feature=player_embedded

Wow... that was insanely fast!!!!! and it look very good....


From the suppliers I found they were offering an option for dual dx5 head......

still waiting on prices ... wondering how much something like this cost

 

[artbot]

they don't make a 1.8m if i recall. it's 1.6/2.2/3.2 the 2.2m dual dx5 was $8500(?).

but keep in mind this printer is not a roland so it is an utter piece of crap and unworthy of the slightest consideration.

 

[chris190]

they don't make a 1.8m if i recall. it's 1.6/2.2/3.2 the 2.2m dual dx5 was $8500(?).

but keep in mind this printer is not a roland so it is an utter piece of crap and unworthy of the slightest consideration.

LOL. Yea.... Man... $8500 thats like $2k more than that vinyl express.... And i mean this is a good way i gotta come up with just a little more money which should be doable........ Time to get rid of some crap i dont really need

 

[chris190]

In a dual print head setup like this ..if the heads get out of sync .... Can you make the printer print with one print head only? Or you must use both at the same time all the time?

 

[randya]

In a dual print head setup like this ..if the heads get out of sync .... Can you make the printer print with one print head only? Or you must use both at the same time all the time?

The heads are typically on one carriage.
They are 'synced' mechanically and aligned mechanically and electrically.

Whether or not ink is distributed evenly (channels of cmyk) or not depends on the manufacturer and firmware.

 

[artbot]

i believe from my emails. the dual, if giving you issues, can be used in one head mode. but the single head printer although still equipped with with a dual head carriage does not have the ink lines, capping station, or slider board(?) for dual printing. i asked if the dual could run two ink sets but the answer no. that would have been awesome.

 

[chris190]

i believe from my emails. the dual, if giving you issues, can be used in one head mode. but the single head printer although still equipped with with a dual head carriage does not have the ink lines, capping station, or slider board(?) for dual printing. i asked if the dual could run two ink sets but the answer no. that would have been awesome.

Hi Artbot,

I did more looking around and you really got me hooked on the witcolor so I really want to go with it .... thanks again for all the info

One thing I found out is that Wit Color is actually made in China .... I think you said Korea but either way seems like the better out of most dx5 knock offs there.

I contacted the company directly wit-color.cn and they quoted me $6500 for the dual dx5 2.2meter ultra 9000 solvent ... which is a great price.... but they don't accept an escrow or anything.... just TT money transfer and FOB

Do you now or does anyone else know if they're ok to deal with them directly as far as making sure you get the product??

Anybody else bought directly from wit-color.cn and had a good transaction ?

Any info would be helpfull as this will be my first transaction like that....

Thanks in advance!!!

Chris

 

[artbot]

gagagooey... $6500 for dual. that is way less than i was quoted about six months ago. you could use an agent? but from what i've encountered is horror stories from rough shot or fictitious websites run by criminals. considering wit-color is a major company distributed throughout china and south america, i doubt they are in the business of theft.

 

[chris190]

gagagooey... $6500 for dual. that is way less than i was quoted about six months ago. you could use an agent? but from what i've encountered is horror stories from rough shot or fictitious websites run by criminals. considering wit-color is a major company distributed throughout china and south america, i doubt they are in the business of theft.

hmm.. thanks for the input..... that's what I was thinking too...

It's $6500 for the dual dx5 1.6m or 1.8.... one of the 2...but I think 1.6.....(have to look again)

$500 for shipping so...$7000 for everything to send it here to chi town.

So yea I was looking at the e-mail and it's got the name@wit-color.cn which is the actual company....

Now they're preparing a procura invoice ?!! ... will see how it goes

either way ... seems very legit so I'm excited

 

[Bill43mx]

Chris,
Please keep us updated on how this goes. Good luck with the transaction, it sounds like a heck of a deal!

 

[artbot]

yes. you will be the columbus of asian market printers. don't be discouraged if there are issues and no support. these machines are all functionally the same. i'm sure the basic clogs and air leaks will be there just like any other printer. and don't be embarrassed if it doesn't work like a jv33. hell if we could all afford a jv33, we'd have one. so, what size are you getting?