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Vinyl patch on print?

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by Colin, May 24, 2012.

  1. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I just printed a 4' x 12' banner (EcoSol ink), and once it was finished, noticed that one small part of the vector section (about 1 sq ft) from the customer supplied artwork didn't import properly (layers got mixed up). So I printed off a patch on matte calendered vinyl, with a circle contour cut.

    The color matches ok, but I'm concerned about adhesion; will the patch adhere ok to a full flood of ink on banner? (13 oz matte JetFlex).
     
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  2. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    i have done that before it was smooth banner (i forget what brand) but i used oracal 3651 and it held up for months. customer never said a word. i had done the install and it was high from the ground so you couldn't notice a thing.
     
  3. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    yeah i've done it before, but if the customer is a stickler it might not fly
     
  4. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    I just did that with a customers banner, that needed a small change in the text. Up close, the patch stood out like a sore thumb.....from 10 feet away, you couldn't tell, even if you knew it was there.
     
  5. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    My concern is long-term adhesion on the inked surface.
     
  6. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    never had a problem as far as that's concerned
     
  7. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I guess I should let it dry overnight before applying the patch.
     
  8. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    I patch banners all the time but not with vinyl. I print a rectangular patch on the same banner material, put banner tape all around the perimeter of the patch and strips of banner tape running whichever is the long way about 3"-4" apart. Peel the banner tape on the patch and slap it on. It doesn't come off, ever, and you can't see it from a couple of feet away. I have one banner with a patch that's been outside, stretched between a couple of posts, for over 3 years now. Looks fine.
     
  9. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Ya, I thought of doing that bob, but this particular banner is a little more picky. I figure the thicker banner material as a patch might stand out more, although the color match would be bang-on.



    Thx
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  10. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    So, if I have this straight..... you or your software didn't catch a problem with files your customer supplied, so his brand new banner has a patch on it before he ever sees it ??

    Are you going to tell him that you took him out of the loop and decided for him..... he was going to get a break in the price since you couldn't produce it correctly ??

    Yeah, when I get a brand new pair of shoes, I don't mind if the cobbler has to put a patch on them before I wear them. Or the new tires I got for the truck has a plug/patch in it before they took them out of the showroom. I mean, we're all about taking shortcuts for our own things, huh ??

    Don't be so greedy. Take the file apart, fix the mistake, let him know you fixed something for him at no extra charge and do it right. Don't be a schmuck and try to hide the fact, you overlooked something and tried to patch it to save a dime. It's your job to know your software and how your equipment works, regardless of what the customer gives you.
     
  11. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Thanks for your kind words Gino, appreciated. I so enjoy being barked at like a junk-yard dog.

    With this customer-provided file, how was I to know that that particular part of the complex image wasn't correct? It could very well have been designed like that. It wasn't until I imported the file into Illy that I saw it imported differently than it did into CorelDraw. I'm not trying to get away with anything; I fully intend to explain exactly what happened with the customer, I just don't feel that throwing a 4' x 12' banner in the garbage over this is reasonable. If the customer doesn't find it acceptable - with a discount (as I think any reasonable person would), then I will re-do it. It's a banner, not a pair of shoes or tires.
     
  12. tsgstl

    tsgstl Active Member

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    I print full color seasonal banners for a church and we change the date on each one every year. Never had a problem with adhesion with any material. I cant remember patching banners that way but I would if it was big enough. I know I have with full color prints on substrates and never thought twice about it.
    I wonder if Gino thinks its OK to weld a plex patch on the back of a small crack on a face? It is more or less the same thing, slightly noticeable at night. No way in he!! I would replace the entire face or even think about telling a customer. I would obviously replace if the customer barked or discount it. I have never had a burger look like it did on the menu. Plywood on my house or the drywall under my paint is patched. Unless it "looks bad" I will sleep just fine at night.
     
  13. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    it's just a 12 foot banner, why not reprint..?
     
  14. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I'm so grateful, you didn't take things the wrong way. You're so considerate like that.

    It seems now you changed your direction a tad. You first seemed upset that YOU didn't notice the flaw and wanted to know about adhesion and durability of patches vs. you're now saying you will explain it all to the customer and do what they request. Personally, I don't think it matters much when you found the mistake..... you found it and in my opinion, my customers rely on me or our guys to get the job done right.

    Sorry to repeat myself, but I would think if someone ordered a new banner, it should come through that way, not patched.

    All of the noise you're giving us about you didn't know this or that has nothing to do with anything..... the one simple fact remains. The banner is wrong. All the baggage about software this and adhesion that, doesn't mean a hill of beans. In the end, a professional will provide a finished product, not patched. Besides, a 4' x 10' banner probably costs more than any shoes you've ever bought and probably cost as much as many people spend on four tires for their vehicle, if you're charging correctly.
     
  15. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    When I send a file, I always include a jpg or pdf for viewing purposed. YOU as the professional should know about items or colors shifting, or masked items not transferring properly or layers going askew. OR you learn the hard way like I did.

    That being said.... I think its acceptable with the patch (certain banners anyways). As for Gino's shoe analogy.....when did you ever send the cobbler the materials to make the shoes? :rolleyes: It was the customers file that screwed up.
     
  16. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    Typically you want to flatten your customer files so that doesn't happen.
    We've had it happen several times, but i wouldn't let it dare leave without getting it fixed someway. And pointing it out.
     
  17. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Hey sky.... ya got it wrong again..........

    I tell the cobbler what style of shoe I want by picking the specs and showing him the picture in the book of the shoes I like and want. He gets the leather, rubber and whatever...... and goes from there making it all and coming up with an end product. He f*cks up, he has to make it right. I'm not gonna wear a patched shoe because he can't do something right or made a mistake.

    Like Color said, you're talking maybe $25 or so worth of media and ink. You could've had another one printed, hemmed and finished by now and letting him know you fixed a file glitch on his end made a friend for life with good PR work.


    Really, there's no sense arguing what's right or wrong. You goofed..... either fix it right or do it half-a$$ed and take the low road. There's no denying the patch will be almost invisible, but it's there. I can't believe that wouldn't bother you.
     
  18. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    Me wrong "AGAIN"???? You know damn well, there hasn't been a "FIRST" yet!!!!! :ROFLMAO:

    In your mind, I should only be partially wrong. :rolleyes: (but not really)

    Like I said, "certain banners".... it depends on the use of the banner and the customer. I fixed a boo-boo for an extremely discounted little league banner that was going on the outfield fence. If they don't like it, they can pay double next year, and go somewhere else.

    If it were a banner for a supermarket chain that I work with, then I would print a new banner.


    All this talk about "Cobbler" has me hungry......mmmm Peach.
     
  19. TammieH

    TammieH Very Active Member

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    That's a bit harsh Gino, without even seeing the banner or the art.
    I know I will catch hell for this but...Its a banner, jeez.

    If it is an exterior banner, I don't see anything wrong with a patch,
    always take in account the viewing distance.
     
  20. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Colin this is the reason I have given up taking AI files into Draw for editing. It is just not worth the effort if you have Illustrator on hand.
    As for patching or not I think it depends on your relationship with the customer.
    I tend to redo even with long term customers unless it is something that will not matter at all to the customer - roadside promo banner that will hang for a month or less etc..
    I have a bus fleet owner that tends to hang out while waiting on his drivers to drop off or pick up and every time he sees something I have pulled and reprinted he insists that I don't throw it away - he will find a use for it & offers to pay.
    He is a very good customer and I always try to do better than he expects.

    Keep some HH66 in the shop for banner repair, patching or even hemming and you will not be sorry.

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
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