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vinyl sticking to latex paint

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by infinitesign, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    :frustrated:I have been in the sign industry for 20 years, and just now am trying to switch to latex paints for backgrounds. I use oracal 651 and the 7 and eight year line for longer outside use. I still seem to have problems getting vinyl to stick to latex. Any advice?
     
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  2. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

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    Don't put vinyl on latex.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    Jun 3, 2008
    Nobody uses latex?
     
  4. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

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    People will chime in that do and swear that it adheres.
    I'd just rather apply vinyl to to non-latex.
     
  5. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    are you still using one shot, or some other oil base paint?
     
  6. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

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    ....and Ronan.
     
  7. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

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    When I handpainted signs exclusively I used good latex house paint as a background.
    Once I got a plotter I realized that vynull didn't stick to it. I think there is some sort of silicone-ey additive in it. (I always used Glidden gloss)
    I switched to using Ronan or 1-Shot as a background.
    It dries like glass and vynull sticks to it like sh!t to a blanket.
    I hear of people who use Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore latex as a background, and also Rhino paints with vynull lettering. But I myself have not tried those brands.
    Maybe try a dry application only when using a latex background, but I still would stick (literally) with oil-based enamels.
    Love....Jill
     
  8. mrchips

    mrchips Member

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    I added HDU with laytex paint to my line this summer....(Ben Moore "Mooreglow", soft gloss). I pre finish the panels and use Avery paint mask prior to carving.......the vinyl stuck just enough but it releases easily. This Fall and Winter, it wasn't sticking fer $hit. I have a overhead quartz heater. I found that by heating the vinyl and the panel that it sticks a lot better.....but I doubt that this is will work long term.

    Good Luck!

    Joe,

    Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
     
  9. Deaton Design

    Deaton Design Very Active Member

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    I stopped using enamels five years ago, due to the fact that they dont last as long anymore, or chalk easily. I do alot of signs made from mdo, and I use a high quality latex based paint for all my backgrounds. I always use satin finish and have never had a problem with adhesion or lifting. I used Porter for awhile, but now use Kilz brand which has a twenty year life. WHen I first started using latex, there were some issues with high gloss. It seemed to emit an oil after drying at times. After I went to semi gloss and then to satin, never had that problem anymore, and, the better vinyls stick much better also. I use Oracal 751 on all outdoor signs and it sticks great.
     
  10. Pat Whatley

    Pat Whatley Major Contributor

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    I'm with John. I usually use Behr Premium from Home Depot (only because HD is close by) and the gloss has something in it that feels slick when its dry. The satin, however, works great and looks great. I was never a big fan on super glossy enamel because the reflections in the finish seemed distracting to me.

    If you have to use the glossy then I've had good results wiping the paint down with denatured alcohol then lettering. Can't think of any failures we've had either way.
     
  11. GVP

    GVP Active Member

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    A third vote for semi-gloss. We stopped using One Shot for backgrounds a few years back due to chalking - we now exclusively use BM semi-gloss latex and haven't had any adhesion issues. Don't use matte, though!
     
  12. Checkers

    Checkers Very Active Member

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    I would recommend that you only use HP cast vinyl on latex. Also, as the others mentioned, satin or a higher gloss finish makes a huge difference too.
    One question though. If you're going to go through all the trouble of painting, why don't you just cut a mask and paint the letters? It's not that much more work and you get a better finished project.

    Checkers
     
  13. Typestries

    Typestries Very Active Member

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    Been making dimensional stuff with applied high performance accents and outlines over MoorGlo soft gloss for over 12 years, never once a failure. Never an issue with pain/mask/carve, either.

    I have never had luck with any Behr paint, and only limited with vinyl on the sherwin williams superpaint.

    A quick pass with the heat gun and felt squeegee or rivet brush really adheres it well. So well that we have had instances where we pulled up some mis-applied stuff and it took the latex and the primer off of the HDU (even with proper HDU prep! It sticks well!)

    You do need to let the BM latex dry thoroughly first, though.
     
  14. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    First off, thank you for the replies. This second time using latex, I was using a flat latex , when the worst scenario occured. I couldn't even pull up the application tape without the whole letter coming off. I will try a satin or gloss , and then only high performance vinyl and see how that goes. Also, thanks for the reply on "why dont I just paint the letters with a mask" It has been so long since I have hand lettered anything, I did not think of it. Maybe that is a good idea for this time. Maybe the mask wont stick....hmmmm. It may be enough though. I live in Augusta Maine where you have to drive to Bangor or Portland (55mi. away) to get a can of one shot. Is there any other paint systems that work on wood, maybe a type of auto paint that can be sprayed?
     
  15. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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    "Paint the letters with a mask" means cut vinyl, reverse weed to use as a mask, then you can just roll on with paint.
     
  16. mrchips

    mrchips Member

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    Thanks Rick!

    Joe,

    Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
     
  17. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    I used one shot up until now. Hand lettering and for vinyl and airbrush. Maybe I shall go back to it if nothing else works. A question for you then. Have you found a vinyl that you can airbrush one shot onto and always have it stick? I say that, because I have had it work well with oracal, but then it would surprise me and not. Also, it's nice to see there are other female sign painters out there in the world. Not too many up here in little
    old Maine.
     
  18. infinitesign

    infinitesign Member

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    I thought you meant cut a mask from vinyl, apply it to the board, then remove app. tape, which would not stick any better than the letters, not what you meant obviously, sorry
     
  19. mrchips

    mrchips Member

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    Rick,

    How are you applying the Ben Moore?

    I've been using a roller and it leaves a fine stipple......which doesn't help the adheasion either.

    Thanks in advance.

    Joe,

    Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
     
  20. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    I have applied vinyl over latex many times. At least 80 or more times. Semi gloss works great. Flat will hold it too but not like semigloss. Any old vinyl will stick. Cheap or expensive no matter. It will not stick over cheap flat construction grade first coat paint. (primer)

    It will stick well most times. Rarely it will just stick enough to stay there. Often I do not know what paint was used. I just take a sample of vinyl along to test.

    Only once did I ever find a wall with latex where nothing would stick. That was in a school and I wonder if there was some anti-graffitti treatment. The wouldn't even apply with heat.
     
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