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What do I do?!

wouldn't touch it

We are so tired of finding crap when putting up a sign and being asked to fix others mistakes. I would reply to her with the facts you have listed as to why her sign is the way it is, along with the google picture showing her the sign doing what it is doing and say If she would like to hire a lawyer and go after the other sign guy that did install the sign, you would be happy to go to bat with her in court at no cost. I would also give her the cost to repair it ( along with a contract signed that the repair was done as to the spec stated)
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
We have only had people threaten to sue us a few times. Every. Single. Time. they never did. Why? because we did nothing wrong. People like this have no business running a... well... business. :Big Laugh I would ignore her. And I have to disagree with the advice given to meet with her and offer her a deal to fix something, or to help her out in any way. Why? Because it's never a good idea to enter into a professional relationship when one side of that relationship is clearly unprofessional and has just threatened your business. Why reward that type of behavior with any type of charity or good will? This person needs to learn that baseless threats will get her nowhere in life.
 

visual800

Active Member
We have only had people threaten to sue us a few times. Every. Single. Time. they never did. Why? because we did nothing wrong. People like this have no business running a... well... business. :Big Laugh I would ignore her. And I have to disagree with the advice given to meet with her and offer her a deal to fix something, or to help her out in any way. Why? Because it's never a good idea to enter into a professional relationship when one side of that relationship is clearly unprofessional and has just threatened your business. Why reward that type of behavior with any type of charity or good will? This person needs to learn that baseless threats will get her nowhere in life.

I gotta agree
 

John Butto

New Member
We have only had people threaten to sue us a few times. Every. Single. Time. they never did. Why? because we did nothing wrong. People like this have no business running a... well... business. :Big Laugh I would ignore her. And I have to disagree with the advice given to meet with her and offer her a deal to fix something, or to help her out in any way. Why? Because it's never a good idea to enter into a professional relationship when one side of that relationship is clearly unprofessional and has just threatened your business. Why reward that type of behavior with any type of charity or good will? This person needs to learn that baseless threats will get her nowhere in life.
You use the gender, she, her, and the word relationship a couple of times, threatened, baseless threats, behavior that will get her nowhere in life. We are not talking girlfriends or marriage here, it is a business, when you have a business problem you meet it head on and try to fix the problem with what you know as the facts. 401 did not inform anyone before or afterwards, either by voice or written communication of the problems he noticed with the signage.
And, as in marriage, if you run into the same problems as you stated, and you handled it like you say, you will be talking to a lawyer if you like it or not, and saying you did nothing wrong does not hold up.
 

704signs

New Member
Dont deal with her in person or verbally .. Send her a letter so she can bring that to court as well.
 

HDvinyl

Trump 2020
Tell her "while listening to your voicemail, I smashed my head against the wall in frustration, causing a gash in my head. I had to go to the hospital for surgery, and YOU are now responsible for the bill."
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I would create a paper trail.

Write a letter introducing all the evidence you have, such as the quote to your original customer, the work order and then the invoice and that they were pleased with the end results.
I would date everything and use the googled picture of here sign as the 'before' your work took place and then an 'after' picture of your work which will clearly show anyone the sign now in question was damaged before you you did anything.

After you have this paper in writing on a letterhead and looking all professional...... ask her for a one-on-one meeting to discuss her problems. Explain to her as John said what you told us. As she gets carried away, simply ask her for a minute and read her your paper, show her the pictures and then give her these things and tell her to read it carefully several times, digest the content and then to govern herself accordingly. Again, make sure she knows, these are copies you are giving her and you will also send one to your customer [the sign above hers], your lawyer, your consultant and the city where you got the permits to do said work. I trust you did this in a legal fashion and got all your permits before working on an electrical sign ?? Without that permit, you're sunk, because then you did the whole job illegally and you won't have a leg to stand on. Permits really can be your friend, no matter what many here say about ignoring them.
 

fresh

New Member
We have only had people threaten to sue us a few times. Every. Single. Time. they never did. Why? because we did nothing wrong. People like this have no business running a... well... business. :Big Laugh I would ignore her. And I have to disagree with the advice given to meet with her and offer her a deal to fix something, or to help her out in any way. Why? Because it's never a good idea to enter into a professional relationship when one side of that relationship is clearly unprofessional and has just threatened your business. Why reward that type of behavior with any type of charity or good will? This person needs to learn that baseless threats will get her nowhere in life.

I agree. Only once did someone threaten to sue me. "I'm going to get my lawyer involved!" We said, no problem, please stop calling me, you need to talk to my lawyer now. The client (not their lawyer) tried to call my lawyer, and she ignored them. That was that. (The problem had to do with wires literally being cut & removed from a box AFTER I quoted the job.)
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
You use the gender, she, her, and the word relationship a couple of times, threatened, baseless threats, behavior that will get her nowhere in life. We are not talking girlfriends or marriage here, it is a business, when you have a business problem you meet it head on and try to fix the problem with what you know as the facts. 401 did not inform anyone before or afterwards, either by voice or written communication of the problems he noticed with the signage.
And, as in marriage, if you run into the same problems as you stated, and you handled it like you say, you will be talking to a lawyer if you like it or not, and saying you did nothing wrong does not hold up.

I used gender because the OP did. I didn't think it was wrong to continue saying "she" and "her" since I don't know her (I'm sorry "that person's":rolleyes:) name. I consider all dealings with clients as business "relationship", this is why I chose that word. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has used that word in that way. So all of that is beside the point. This "relationship" didn't start with the person in question hiring 401 to make her sign. It started with a threat, and I'm going to take 401's word for it when he says he did not harm her sign, so it would be a baseless threat on her part. Meaning the person in question is dishonest in her attempt to have 401 solve HER problem by claiming that he caused the problem at which point she then threatening to harm his business with legal action.

This is the type of relationship I would avoid, not "meet head on" as you put it. Not unless I want to waste my time. If the circumstances were different and she hired him to do a job and something went awry during that service, then I could see trying to patch up that relationship, but even then, when someone threatens our company with a lawsuit, and we know we are not in the wrong, that relationship ends. Why would anyone want to continue a business relationship with someone like that, unless they are a gluten for punishment? Someone so quick to fly off the handle and threaten to sue, will most likely continue to be unreasonable and difficult to work with, even if you make them a deal. Not only would I not offer this person a deal or discount, I wouldn't work for that person at full price. Why risk it. And if you know with certainty that you did nothing wrong, I wouldn't even waste my time meeting with her.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Joe, while you're dead balls on with your principles and attitude of such a person, you're not thinking this through completely.

I'm a firm believer in doing things not just for the principle, but also for the best possible outcome. While you might be 100% in the right, it still takes time and money if you just say.... Wanna sue me ?? Go right ahead and I'll prove you wrong in a court of law and you'll pay my lawyer's fees and court costs, to boot. It's very hard to get someone to pay all of your costs.... even if you're in the right. Besides, you won't get lost wages for all the preparation, meeting with your attorney or your time going, sitting and coming back from the case itself. Lotta wasted time and money on one's part to prove a point.

A quick meeting, a short piece of written paper or whatever before taking a stand of 'You're a crazy lady and I'll prove it in court'. Judges don't care much if you're in the right or not, but frivolous lawsuits are really frowned upon by almost all courts, except for Judge Judy's courtroom, where she thrives on this kinda nonsense. The general consensus of judges is hopefully one party will have enough sense of how to thwart this kinda BS from reaching their courtroom.

The fastest way from point 'A' to point 'B' is a straight line and that's a direct conversation with the nutjob in question and get it over-with in person. Take one or two trustworthy witnesses along, if you're scared.
 

John Butto

New Member
The only "relationship" I have in business is the relationship with money. 90% of people I deal with in business I would not even talk to them in my personal life except maybe being cordial and saying "hello". When someone threatens me I do not ignore it unless it is and old women who feels I am blocking the isle in the grocery store, or some OP who wants to "kick my butt" on the internet. Business has to be handled with a strategy that will produce results. Some animals as you know stick their heads in the sand and ignore the coming dangers thinking that it will pass. Your popular Joe, with your hometown people and on here with your peers, you should run for political office, your dealing with the kind of situation and compromise seems to be the norm now.
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
Joe, while you're dead balls on with your principles and attitude of such a person, you're not thinking this through completely.

I'm a firm believer in doing things not just for the principle, but also for the best possible outcome. While you might be 100% in the right, it still takes time and money if you just say.... Wanna sue me ?? Go right ahead and I'll prove you wrong in a court of law and you'll pay my lawyer's fees and court costs, to boot. It's very hard to get someone to pay all of your costs.... even if you're in the right. Besides, you won't get lost wages for all the preparation, meeting with your attorney or your time going, sitting and coming back from the case itself. Lotta wasted time and money on one's part to prove a point.

A quick meeting, a short piece of written paper or whatever before taking a stand of 'You're a crazy lady and I'll prove it in court'. Judges don't care much if you're in the right or not, but frivolous lawsuits are really frowned upon by almost all courts, except for Judge Judy's courtroom, where she thrives on this kinda nonsense. The general consensus of judges is hopefully one party will have enough sense of how to thwart this kinda BS from reaching a courtroom.

The fastest way from point 'A' to point 'B' is a straight line and that's a direct conversation with the nutjob in question and get it over-with in person. Take one or two trustworthy witnesses along, if you're scared.

No you see I'm thinking it through very clearly. And principal has less to do with it than simple common sense. Until an actual lawyer contacts you, it's just a baseless threat by someone who wants something from you for nothing.

So you have a few possible outcomes here, (I'll put them in what I believe is most likely to least likely)
1.Person threatens to sue you. You call their bluff, you don't waste any time or money dealing with it. They go away. This is your best outcome because they didn't get what they want through dishonest means and you didn't waste any resources dealing with it.

2.Person threatens to sue you. Their lawyer does get involved. Lawyer recognizes this person has no case, advises them to drop it. You have wasted none of your time or efforts. Still a good outcome for you.

3.Person threatens to sue you, Their lawyer gets involved, Their lawyer contacts you. You don't meet with them directly but contact your lawyer and have them take care of it. In this case at least you are protected, but it will cost you some. However maybe not as much as it would to fix this persons sign for free or discounted price.

4.Person threatens to sue you. You waste your time having a meeting with them. The unreasonable person doesn't like what you have to say and still threatens to sue you. You call their bluff. You don't waste any additional time or money dealing with it, even though you did waste time at the meeting and preparing for the meeting. They go away.

5.Person threatens to sue you. You waste your time having a meeting with them. The unreasonable person doesn't like what you have to say and still threatens to sue you. Their lawyer does get involved, Lawyer recognizes this person has no case, advises them to drop it.

6.Person threatens to sue you. You waste your time having a meeting with them. The unreasonable person doesn't like what you have to say and still threatens to sue you. Their lawyer gets involved. Their lawyer contacts you. You don't meet with them directly but contact your lawyer deal with them and have them take care of it. In this case you aren't as protected before because you may potentially provided the other person and his or her lawyer with ammunition during your initial meeting. Also now their lawyer knows your hand. and it will cost you some because now your lawyer has more work to do to protect you.

7. Person threatens to sue you. You waste your time having a meeting with them, The only way you can please them is by offering them some sort of deal, which leads to more work, This person continues to be unreasonable to work with and you lose more money, and they get free or discounted services. Heck they may threaten to sue you again for something else.

8. Person threatens to sue you. You waste your time having a meeting with them, The only way you can please them is by offering them some sort of deal, which leads to more work, They are then easy to work with, but you are still doing work for a discounted rate, so you are loosing money.

9. Person threatens to sue you. In your meeting the person listens to reason but still sin't happy that they didn't get some sort of deal. They don't hire you, You go on with your life.

10. Person threatens to sue you. The meeting goes well and the person listens to reason, and hires you to fix their sign at normal rate(s).

11. Person threatens to sue you. It does go to court, you win. You wasted some time, maybe some money depending on if you or they would have to pay court and lawyer fees.

12. Person threatens to sue you. It does go to court, you somehow loose. That's bad but it sounds unlikely in this case.

13. Person threatens to sue you. You have a meeting with them. During the meeting you find out this person is your soul mate, you ask her to marry you right then an there. You move in together, for several months everything is great, then you look on the fridge at the "honey do" list and it says "fix my sign" You fix the sign, the person then divorces you takes everything you own, and now has a brand new sign.

So as you can see a lot of different things COULD happen. But I would be willing to bet that they wont sue. Keep in mind there are factors we do know that we can use to make a good decision anytime we are dealing with risk vs reward. This person is being unreasonable. We know this already. Spending time on anything without being paid costs us money. Spending time on anything and getting paid a fraction of what you would normally charge, would still result in the loss of money. (unless you haven't any work). The other person is conscious of the fact that Hiring a lawyer or going to court will likely cost them money. Lawyers LOVE to win and typically advice their clients on their chances of winning a case, and in most cases will attempt to talk a client out of situation where they are sure to lose.

So as you can see claiming that I am not "thinking this through completely" is not accurate at all. In fact it's flat out wrong. I like to consider possibilities and likelihoods. You may disagree with my conclusion, but to claim it is devoid of thought and based on principal or attitude is simply untrue. Based on what we know, I would challenge where your head is at, since you called mine into question.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Pretty good possibilities, but you evidently have not worked within the court system or have been sheltered from it.

First thing you have wrong is.... you are thinking rationally. We already know the lady is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, so this could become a lotta fun.
Next, you give this lady's lawyer credit for having the same reasoning powers or conscience you have..... ain't gonna happen, either. If they hear anything remotely resembling a court-case, the two lawyers will first contact each other and figure out how to milk this thing a little. They already know how it will turn out in court, so to benefit them, they'll just rack up some phone calls, taking notes and then eventually suggest you two settle outta court and go your separate ways. They win. No one else. You can take that to the bank, Joe.... really. Lawyers are mostly just frustrated preachers' sons practicing to become politicians.


Joe, you handle it any way you like, but the first thing to do is to avoid these things by focusing on doing your business properly and protecting your A$$ets so you don't run into this kinda predicament.

As for me, like you, I will go to court in a New York minute based on principle, but I confront my aggressors first.... man to man..... man to woman....... or man to firm. I, unlike you, DO wanna know what I'm dealing with right upfront. Time for playing games ?? I'm at an age, where I can afford this stoopid crap and I actually don't mind confrontation...... like anyone here didn't already see that one coming. I'm tired of people taking advantage of things with idle threats or arm waving in my face. I can still kick some a$$, but I choose where and when and how I pick my fights. I really will do a quick evaluation of the surroundings before I do something stoopid.
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
Pretty good possibilities, but you evidently have not worked within the court system or have been sheltered from it.

First thing you have wrong is.... you are thinking rationally. We already know the lady is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, so this could become a lotta fun.
Next, you give this lady's lawyer credit for having the same reasoning powers or conscience you have..... ain't gonna happen, either. If they hear anything remotely resembling a court-case, the two lawyers will first contact each other and figure out how to milk this thing a little. They already know how it will turn out in court, so to benefit them, they'll just rack up some phone calls, taking notes and then eventually suggest you two settle outta court and go your separate ways. They win. No one else. You can take that to the bank, Joe.... really. Lawyers are mostly just frustrated preachers' sons practicing to become politicians.


Joe, you handle it any way you like, but the first thing to do is to avoid these things by focusing on doing your business properly and protecting your A$$ets so you don't run into this kinda predicament.

As for me, like you, I will go to court in a New York minute based on principle, but I confront my aggressors first.... man to man..... man to woman....... or man to firm. I, unlike you, DO wanna know what I'm dealing with right upfront. Time for playing games ?? I'm at an age, where I can afford this stoopid crap and I actually don't mind confrontation...... like anyone here didn't already see that one coming. I'm tired of people taking advantage of things with idle threats or arm waving in my face. I can still kick some a$$, but I choose where and when and how I pick my fights. I really will do a quick evaluation of the surroundings before I do something stoopid.


Sounds like you just need a better lawyer.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Haha......... now you're assuming.

My last bunch of court cases [over the last 10 or 15 years], I did without a lawyer and won all of them. My last one was just a few weeks ago. I tried to reason with the lady, but she just had in her head she was right and had her story backed up by a competitive sign guy. Got to court and the judge got angry with both of us for the case and I explained I tried to reason with her and she refused to listen to me. I had before, after and during pictures documenting everything we did. I had e-mails of my contacting her and how I tried to settle up with her and I also had returned receipt letters which I included everything as evidence as to what extent I had gone to to remedy this. The case started and after my opening testimonies, her first witness was the other sign guy who was quickly thrown out of court, not once, but on his way out gave some more lip and was told he better hurry up and get out or HE would face fines.

It took all but 15 minutes for the entire case and I won 100% of just not my costs, but my court costs, travel and wrongful doings. It was outlined in an e-mail and my letter to her that this would take place should it go to court. That stuff is also written in on all of our quotes and invoices, so no one can argue they didn't know if for some reason..... and it's not in the fine print at all. It's quite legible.


:Oops: Mind you..... these are court cases based on sign incidents, nothing about personal or other civil matters.
 

skyhigh

New Member
Hahahaha
Actually all the signs below hers have been replaced because new business have moved in. I think this street view pic was taken in august of 2011. I know this because if i turn the street view to the left i can see my coming soon sign in the window of where my shop used to be across the street from here.


So here is a pic of what i was talking about with the "J" channels (is that the proper name for them?) and hers being upsidedown and her sign being held in by the backside of the J channel/track.
View attachment 93309

Doesn't the bottom of your sign share a common divider bar with the top of hers? At least that is what it looks like on your google picture. (the other side is worse, if you've had a chance to look at it on google)

That sign is a real piece of crap. Did you use a flat panel in the top also?
 

401Graphics

New Member
Doesn't the bottom of your sign share a common divider bar with the top of hers? At least that is what it looks like on your google picture. (the other side is worse, if you've had a chance to look at it on google)

That sign is a real piece of crap. Did you use a flat panel in the top also?
It does not share the same divider bar. (it should, but it doesnt)

I used the same polycarb panel that was in the sign in the pic, i stripped the old vinyl and applied new vinyl.
 

skyhigh

New Member
Being that you have to return to the same complex......Print off the picture you posted, along with the other side (from google street view), and show her these pictures.

After she viewed the pictures, you should ask her....... And you're saying I did what???? Lady, these are pictures of your sign from a year ago!!! Is this the first you noticed the problem???

You can follow up by telling her how you've contacting your lawyer over the mental stress she has caused you (jk)




Edit: Like Gino said.....DOCUMENT everything. I would.....
1) take some good pictures
2) contact the building owner, explaining how this sign is unsafe
3) contact your zoning officer or inspector. See if they will inspect the sign to document its condition.
4) have another sign shop document your findings (if their cost isn't outrageous..... as a last resort, if you think she will push the issue)

Be proactive. This could snowball on you, if you don't nip it in the bud. Pretty soon, she will have the other tenants blaming you also.
 

visual800

Active Member
Hot damn! I have never in my life seen how some of you folks act to a damn woman that comes out of the gate popping off threats, any being a psycho biotch. How the hell do ya'll get in any work done

joe diaz solutions seem to be bestsolution right under mine that would be to just tell her to go **** herself.I can tell when someone wants something for nothing and it wont be taken off me. You think trash like her will "spread the word" please!

being nice and professional to psychos is a waste of breath and time blow them off and move on, be done with this. More than likely this woman has gone thru most of life trying to get this and that

and Gino what in the hell lands you in court so much?
 
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