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What should I do??

k.a.s.

k.a.s.

New Member
So I have been working with an ad agency on a sign project. I dont do a lot of third party stuff so it appears I made a mistake. So I sent a price to the agency and the project was a go.

Yesterday we went to install and I gave the invoice when done to the client, which is what I always do honestly it was done out of habbit and it didnt even occur to me that I screwed up. Well now the ad guy is pissed b/c they were marking my stuff up around $1,000. I assumed they were charging for designs and stuff, but he never told me I wasnt to bill the client, I realize I made a mistake but I've never worked with them before so it wouldve been nice if he had said somthing.

So the question is what do I do now? He wants me to pay him his mark-up, but the client agreed to a price, I dont know why they wouldnt still pay it weather they know the wholesale or not. I'm prolly not getting any more work from them either way, so do I pay him his mark-up?

Kevin
 
"Deposit Please"

"Deposit Please"

New Member
lol..a detailed contract would've been nice and this prolly wouldn't have happened. At this point, I would talk with the guy directly(face to face) and iron it out.
 
anotherdog

anotherdog

New Member
Client agreed the price. the Agency needs to go to the client for the money.
However sounds like the Agency doesn't want to lose the client.
Can you negotiate some kick-back and save the relationship?

I am always leery about working with agencies because of issues like incredible mark-up and difficulty getting paid.
 
WhiskeyDreamer

WhiskeyDreamer

Professional Snow Ninja
I've done a few agency jobs, and each one has been different. Sometimes I'm billing the agency, other times I'm billing their client directly.

Personally, the way I see it. If you know you're not gonna get any more business from them, I wouldn't pay their markup. They should be able to explain that markup to their client. Either through design fees or what not.

Yes, you made an oopsie in giving the client the invoice, but if their client agreed to a price, they are required to pay that. Not YOU!
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
tough mistake..tough one to answer on what to do going forward.

here's my thoughts.

an established professional agency can send a TON of work to a sign company (and usually the caliber of work and clients that many sign shops can not obtain on their own..for a variety of reasons). is this an established agency or a fly by night?

is the company that hired the agency a big company? growing company? in short is the agency facing losing a major account here?

if it is a project that is probably a one time deal for a one time customer (for the agency) experience tells me the agency would probably be in a little bit of an uncomfortable situation but their contract would get them paid...if they are trying to save a relationship with a company who sends them some volume, i might be inclined to work out a solution with the agency (with the understanding that you are doing this to retain them as a client...) this does not need to be in the form of you outright writing them a check (and i probably wouldnt recommend that unless you have a great relationship with the client) instead i would offer them a discount on future work until that amount is reached, ensuring that you get future work from the client.

if this is more of a broker, fly by night 'agency' i wouldnt recommend this..but if this is truly a professional, established ADVERTISING AGENCY i would most likely do what was necessary to salvage this working relationship.

regardless i would be extremely honest and apologetic about the error..mistakes happen, learn from it and put a process in place that this is discussed in the future so that it doesnt happen again.

just a sidenote that kind of makes me question a few things. in all the years that i have worked with agencies, i've delivered to their clients, i have installed on clients property or other locations...i have had their customers call me directly trying to cut the agency out of the picture, etc (don't ever do that by the way..obviously) EVERY one of the agency's clients has known that the agency is using an outside contractor to produce the actual project..that is what they do. so even though you made an error something makes me think this is more of a broker than an agency...i may be very wrong. so even though an agency would want to protect what they have negotiated with you from the client (and i have seen agency contracts that flat out tell their clients that they may mark up their contractors work as much as 3000% so nothing surprises me) again if this is a true agency their client knows that the agency isn't producing the product and is marking up the amount, how much they mark it up shouldnt be a concern (although something that should be protected out of professional courtesy) as long as they agreed to the price.
 
k.a.s.

k.a.s.

New Member
Thanks for the responses, it is an established agency but the client is a smaller chruch that now has signs and I doubt will be any sort of constant work flow for them. Obviously the church knew they werent producing the signs, and the markup wasnt unreasonable in my opinion (around $1000, and my bill was $6500.00) Im going to do what I can to make this right with the ad guys but I think they need to go to the client and have them pay the bill at the agreed upon price which I dont think they will have a problem with. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Kevin
 
mikefine

mikefine

New Member
I think you are both over-reacting. So you made a mistake and the invoice you submitted did not include all the services and fees provided, which totals $1,000. What is the big deal? Also, sounds like you did a good job and delivered the signs you were hired to do. The client should understand that the ad agency doesn't work for free.

It the ad agency is being a jerk and doesn't want to take control of the situation, submit another bill to the client which includes the ad agency services, under your name -- design, set-up, concept arrangement, etc. Tell the client there was a miscommunication and the original invoice did not include all the charges and fees.

I would also communicate with the ad agency that you intend to collect all the fees, if that is what they want you to do. No problem, if that is what they want you are happy to do it. You are actually adding value to your work. Once you are paid, provide the ad agency their $1,000.00 commission.

When it all ends up, you'll probably be called for more work.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
The word "agency"... what does that mean?

If you had a contract with the "agency", and they signed it, then you did royally screw up. If the "agency" passed the contract along to the client and they signed it, then I can see where you would assume to bill the client, the contract is with them.

Third party signage is done in many ways, the ways I have dealt with it was through a general contractor, an environmental graphic design firm, a design firm, and an ad agency. With all those types of third party companies, there is no standard for billing, though it is my experience that ad agencies are usually billed for this type of work as they usually mark up.

I design signs only, when I am designing for a client. I send the client a preferred vendor list, or if my contract has it, I may even send the jobs out to bid with a RFP, but I never mark anything up. I get paid to project manage the job during implementation, or the client will do that themselves or through a general contractor.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Yeah, it was an honest mistake, but a very embarrassing one for the agency. No one, for some reason, wants anyone else to know they're making a profit for doing nothing. I'd probalby offer to mediate for your agency friend and since you handed the church a bill for your part, tell them you made a mistake and forgot to add the agencies portion in. Offer to re-bill them or they can pay the agency directly for their portion. Be humble and apologetic, but don't demand. If the church declines, be honest and ask them for a fair look into what you did and maybe they can forgive you and do the right thing.

We have a pretty strict rule, it's simple and possibly if you use it, it will help you remember this in the future. The person paying you is who the bill goes to.

Although we do a fair amount of third party work, we will talk to the end clients, help with designs, obtain permits and actually almost function like an extension of OUR client to their client, but never lose the fact of who is paying us.

Recently, we had a building manager request we bill his client directly. I asked him why and he said to keep costs down and so he didn't have to add anything to the bill. From experience, I know this is usually a no win situation for me/us. When the building manager doesn't want to get involved.... with his own tenant, there must be something up........ like untrustworthy tenants. I told him thank you, but no thank you. Either you will be my client or we can't do business.

When someone else gets you a job and doesn't want to get involved in the billing.... how can you be sure you can collect the money from someone you haven't really had much contact with.

Anyway, that's a different scenario, but be careful of third party stuff and make sure you read all of your paper work so you don't create this problem again.


Good Luck
 
S

signswi

New Member
Kiss more ass than you've ever kissed if you ever want to work with the agency again. That's a pretty huge error. No where in your CRM should have anything appeared other than the agency, why was the agency's client even in your system?
 
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