Why do designers really not understand us sign people?

[gabagoo]

I don't know about you, but I feel like I waste so much time trying to explain to designers that I don't need each piece of a job in a separate file and then they do just that. Case in point...
I quote a job of individual graphics for a company that will be placed in different offices. A mixture of frost and wall graphics. each and every file graphic ( 63) are in their own file and of course saved as an ai file rather than an eps file that I requested.
The importing time is crazy....not sure why they wouldn't want them all in one file...very simplistic vector art too.

 

[royster13]

As far as I know, many designers are taught that an EPS is not the best file format.....Not sure all the reasons why but EPS is not the native format for Illustrator and when you save to EPS you can lose stuff....Sometimes the loss is very subtle and sometimes not.....

 

[klmiller611]

I think as much as anything, designers are not taught the mechanics of making things work. In fact I sort of doubt most folks instructing have a clue of how things need to work, and how to explain to students how to make things work. My background is as a designer, and I am from the era that there was paste up, typesetting, photo stats, etc. etc. None of my mechanical skills were taught, short of precision, and neatness. In the past 20 or so years, I've seen so many designers that really do not have a clue how things work.

I got files in a few weeks ago, from a corporate designer, to print a counterfront, 77.625 inches wide, with their logo. They asked me what kind of file I wanted, I said a vector file. It came as an PDF file (which was fine) I could see the logo looked a bit fuzzy. So I opened it in Illustrator, noted that the stripes were also not nice and straight, the logo, rather than a vector file, was a scaled (and not proportionally!) bit map logo. I sent it back and asked for a vector file, same thing came back a few hours later. Obviously, the corporate designer did not have a clue. I went on my own, and found a vector logo, and replaced it. Sure, I could let it go, but I had the time, and at least I am satisfied that I got them a better product.

I get stuff like that all the time and when I had students intern with me from community college, I was totally appalled, as they were ready to graduate.

It is sad, it is also like present day photography now, don't worry about getting it right, I can fix it later in photoshop.

Ken Miller

 

[Gino]

Ya know, my favorite dressing is oil and vinegar. Tastes great when blended properly, but they don't mix well at all up to that point.

This has been an on-going battle since computers came onto the scene. Years ago, the work an ad agency person did was excruciatingly hard and difficult. Their output was amazing and copying their work was a breeze. Since the computer came onto the scene, the real artists are no longer necessary. Not only that, but they've become lazy-a$$ people with just pushing buttons. Sound familiar ?? When you find an agency with some experience, they are a breath of fresh air to work with on projects.

Just hafta roll with the punches. ​

 

[gabagoo]

yes but in my head saving every individual piece of artwork separately in it's own file is way more tedious than grouping them all together and just working in one document.

 

[Marlene]

they don't work with out putting their designs and are clueless as to what is needed. also just love it when they finally do send a vector file with a ton of overlapping lines, no welds and stuff that is hidden but is there under the main crap. they have no idea how to break out for cutting, routing or anything else. I spend more time following strange lines to delete of weld together than I do anything else. we charge for that so bring it

 

[eahicks]

On the other side of the coin, I often get one PSD or AI file, in layers, that I end up having to sit and turn on a layer, save out, turn off that layer and turn on the next layer, save out, etc.... That's as time consuming as the batch of separate files.

 

[Billct2]

But it looks great on my monitor

 

[qmr55]

they don't work with out putting their designs and are clueless as to what is needed. also just love it when they finally do send a vector file with a ton of overlapping lines, no welds and stuff that is hidden but is there under the main crap. they have no idea how to break out for cutting, routing or anything else. I spend more time following strange lines to delete of weld together than I do anything else. we charge for that so bring it

And you expect a designer who works for a creative firm to know how to break files up for cutting/routing? Isn't that your job, hence why they are sending you the work? That is not something that is taught in school so I don't see why you think they would know how to do it.

 

[Billct2]

And you expect a designer who works for a creative firm to know how to break files up for cutting/routing?

I do. Part of their job is to provide files in the appropriate format for the output. Or at the minimum, provide the file type asked for.
I had a big shot NYC designer who couldn't get why I wanted him to convert the text to vector. He spent more time complaining
than it would have taken to do it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

And you expect a designer who works for a creative firm to know how to break files up for cutting/routing? Isn't that your job, hence why they are sending you the work? That is not something that is taught in school so I don't see why you think they would know how to do it.

I agree to this to an extent.

I'm always getting from the end customer that they are told " that their files will work no matter what, hear otherwise, that company is not up to snuff" (or words to that effect). If it's not being taught (which I doubt anything other then web or print work is, probably more about web work), then taking that kind of stance with their design work is really bad form.

As long as they can accept that things don't necessarily translate as they envision them and are willing to accept the experience and knowledge of an expert in that field that's one thing, most however, do not. If they do not, then they should be up to snuff on what it takes for physical production.

 

[qmr55]

I do. Part of their job is to provide files in the appropriate format for the output. Or at the minimum, provide the file type asked for.
I had a big shot NYC designer who couldn't get why I wanted him to convert the text to vector. He spent more time complaining
than it would have taken to do it.

Outlining fonts and/or saving as a vector file, is completely different than getting a file ready for routing and/or cutting...

 

[Billct2]

That's true, but they should be able to provide clean files that are capable of being set up without having to spend a lot of time getting rid of garbage that is "hidden".

 

[oksigns]

As far as I know, many designers are taught that an EPS is not the best file format.....Not sure all the reasons why but EPS is not the native format for Illustrator and when you save to EPS you can lose stuff....Sometimes the loss is very subtle and sometimes not.....

I can tell you this, as a designer working in pop signage, window perf, and misc signage, I would only export as a EPS as last resort or specifically requested. There are advantages like you mention, but it just sounds like a designer not paying attention to all the specs. There is a relationship involved; the designer needs to know the printer at some level and the required deliverables. It is a two way street and there just needs to be that understanding.

Most production artists need to be told exactly what needs to be done and how. It all goes back to that relationship, the designer needs to understand how these deliverables will be printed so they can save you time and hassle.

 

[petepaz]

I do. Part of their job is to provide files in the appropriate format for the output. Or at the minimum, provide the file type asked for.
I had a big shot NYC designer who couldn't get why I wanted him to convert the text to vector. He spent more time complaining
than it would have taken to do it.

that must have been the same company i worked with and i got " well, i do this all the time with no issues. i don't understand why you can't handle this"
they actually tried telling my customer they should go somewhere else. hey if i don't have the font it's not that hard to create outlines...it's just a click.

we all have these types of issues and unfortunately we will for ever. just have to deal with it. the main thing i think is the designer is hired to make or create a logo that pops, the customer likes and overall gets your attention but what they don't understand is all the processes the logo will be used for. sometimes you have to create artwork so it can be used for a sign, a t-shirt and also for a small label all have different requirements.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Because 95% of the people in this industry aren't designers and don't have a clue.
Because most people in agencies aren't designers and don't have a clue.
Because most people in this industry have no idea what industry standards are.
Because most people in agencies make up their own industry standards.
Because most people in ad agencies are BS salesmen.
Because most people in sign shops believe their own ********.

 

[Gino]

:ROFLMAO:..... Pat. Tell us how you really feel.........................

 

[Rick]

My job is partially based on designers not knowing what they are doing... I call it job security...

 

[brycesteiner]

I quote a job of individual graphics for a company that will be placed in different offices. A mixture of frost and wall graphics. each and every file graphic ( 63) are in their own file and of course saved as an ai file rather than an eps file that I requested.
The importing time is crazy....not sure why they wouldn't want them all in one file...very simplistic vector art too.

Maybe it's because you quoted it individually?
At one time AI couldn't do multiple pages/artboards and maybe the Designer hasn't learned about the newer features. That would be frustrating at least with EPS or PDF's you can easily combine them into one file.

 

[brycesteiner]

As far as I know, many designers are taught that an EPS is not the best file format.....Not sure all the reasons why but EPS is not the native format for Illustrator and when you save to EPS you can lose stuff....Sometimes the loss is very subtle and sometimes not.....

EPS is a great format and is not lossy at all. Not true with JPG or some other formats. In school we were always told to use EPS--even at times when it's not the best format for the job. Saving out of Illustrator, EPS can be native and it doesn't have to export like other formats. It also opens natively if you set it as your default program for that file type. If other programs open and save it can cause issues because some have included proprietary info in the file -- including Adobe.