Your design level...

[Bigdawg]

First of all - I am awed almost daily by the talent on this board. Just awed. There are some designers on here that just blow my socks off with anything and everything they post. I strive to get to that level.

Now having said that... I feel like there are different levels of design... I'm not talking about a great designer giving the client options. I am talking capabilities here.

I am a commercial graphic designer. I am not a high-end Dan Antonelli or Jeff Fisher or any of the other highly-gifted names out there. (I use them because they happen to be a couple of the designers who's work I admire). I am commercial. Every job I do will not be a portfolio piece as much as I wish otherwise and will never be. I work at a commercial shop that does commercial signs. Our clients will not pay for high end design no matter how I try to sell it to them - and yes I can kick out a good one every once in a while... but not every client is a high-end client.

But I don't feel like there's any shame in that. I am not technically trained. I did not get to go to school. As a matter of fact I am in this business because the "schooled" graphic artists weren't commercial - and didn't know how to translate a design into something that was useable in the real print world. I learned from some of the best commercial designers in my area... and on my own (yes I cringe at some of my early layouts) with the guidance of good books, good people and a good eye for balance.

So where do you feel like you're at in the overall scope of "design?"

 

[animenick65]

I'm the same way as you Stacy. I do not run the business I work for, therefore I am sometimes confined to the scope of a project. This means there is limited time and means to create portfolio pieces for each client at times. I do my best to change this status quo over time but I do the best I can with what I have. Somedays I truly spend my time simply laying out projects, not really designing things. In truth, I have a hard time describing my position here to people at times, just because it can involve so many different things in any given day. But then, this is the nature of the sign business.

 

[FatCat]

... As a matter of fact I am in this business because the "schooled" graphic artists weren't commercial - and didn't know how to translate a design into something that was useable in the real print world...

Stacy, very much in the same boat as you. I grew up with ink in my veins as my father has been an offset printer for over 35 years. When he opened his own shop in 1992 I had just graduated and went to a community college to learn the basics of printing. Typesetting, litho-camera, stripping, running a press, etc. What I really enjoyed the most was working on a Mac. (Photoshop, Illustrator, QuarkXpress, etc.) I learned all the ins and outs of designing for printing. However, I never did go to "design school" or learn the basics of design.

Back then it was more about making something that worked (trapping, separations, etc.) with the printing process more than the design itself. I had a real talent for fixing other people's prepress issues and that was what I was - a prepress tech. At the same time, I needed to setup jobs for customers that didn't have designers. Yes, I cringe at looking at some of my old stuff as well. Over time I learned from seeing what others did, and also from reading and researching other designers.

I agree there are some very talented designers out there, and I admire their knack of making things look right. However, I constantly try to do better at each job I produce. I may never get to the level of some of them, but I will never quit learning or trying.

 

[Gino]

Welcome from PA........................


:Oops: ....... this isn't a traditional introduction.



I don't think anyone is going to toot their own horn here. I thoroughly believe we all design for what our clients want. If you have a customer base and do a lot of high end work such as things for casinos, parks and other neat places.... that would be the ultimate for me. However, not many of our customers request that and we're basically commercial with a neat one every so often coming through.

My biggest concern is burn out. After designing so many signs, logos, layouts and media ads for so many years... I try not to become stale. I'm always asking for more input from Jeremy or another person that comes in here on a part basis. I always want to see and watch the progression of new work come together from new blood which reflects new ideas.

I consider myself middle of the road. Some things are killer while some are just barely above acceptable. Sometimes the customer dictates that through money or lack of and lack of enthusiasm which carries over to us, the designers.


I originally started out as a signmaker and designs were always just taken from a thumbnail, so the same emphasis that is put on this stuff today wasn't even heard of years ago, except by big ad agencies. Only artistic people could do this 25 years ago. No one else could even fathom it. Today.... pushing a mouse around and knowing your way around software and the internet has developed a whole new breed of designers.

The following answers should be quite interesting.​

 

[HaroldDesign]

I am probably the greatest designer there has ever been, or will ever be.

 

[Bigdawg]

I knew that from your Avatar Caleb... isn't that one of your designs?

hope you know I'm just teasin' you...

 

[Jillbeans]

When I first started painting signs I thought I was the shizzit till I went to a Letterhead meet and realized all my signs looked like sh!t. I have gradually applied what I learned in high school art classes as well as art school, to what I learned from mentors in this trade and the Mike Stevens book.

I think there is no shame in making functional commercial signs. What is sad is when layout rules are broken for the sake of "cool" and legibility is sacrificed for special effects. I like nothing more than to see a "plain" sign which really pops, even if it is just a FOR SALE sign. That, to me, is the essence of good design.
Love....Jill

 

[Billct2]

Journeyman here

 

[J Hill Designs]

I straight suck at design

 

[Rick]

Fact is, if you are a "commercial artist" you are technically trained. The issue or difference "MIGHT" be, are you conceptually trained? To have both skills is what I think makes the work funner with whatever type of work you do.

I'm a design school drop out, I have earned my chops in construction, bouncing around different places and as a floor sweeper/shop grunt/vinyl cutter designer/head airbrush de-gunker. Now I would have been happy staying at any of those places if the pay was enough and it was fun, but none of them ended up being fun or pay very well (okay construction paid very well, but was not fun) At the same time I really wanted to do substantial work. For me, I had to make a conscientious effort to get to the places to do really big work. I have done massive projects, including Disney, Warner Bros and other theme and national parks in different parts of the world, but it's not all that it's cracked up to be. Imagine working on one job for 2 years, the fun stuff last 4 months, the rest is red tape, construction documentation and management.

It's great to see work in a magazine or books, but it's even cooler to see it work and people enjoying it. There is no special diploma needed to do it, you just have to find a way to do it.

The 2 people you mention do very good small business design, not to take away from their talent, because they are both very talented, but anyone of us can do that "type" of work if we choose to do it. I have been reading Dan Antonelli's articles for years, I have chatted on another forum with Jeff Fisher and I read his blog, and one thing you notice in their careers. At a certain point, they made a decision to change the way they do business... not the clients way, but they made that business decision that made them happier to do the work and modified it to fit what they wanted to do. That is in the grasp of all of us in one form or another. But they still have to do the "commercial work" too because it's part of the business, but they go after work that makes them happy in this business.... at least thats what I get out of my limited knowledge of those 2 designers.

I have had just as much fun running a plotter as I have designing theme park signage. But I really dig it when people like my work, I get just as stoked if it's a set of door graphics on a guys truck or a massive pylon sign.

 

[HaroldDesign]

I knew that from your Avatar Caleb... isn't that one of your designs?

It is one of mine, and I think it goes a long way in supporting my earlier statement.

 

[OldPaint]

iam 1 step above PAT THE PLUMBER.......hahahahahahahahahha

 

[Ponto]

Have enough experience and talent to comment on what I consider poor or good design... I think having the ability to design is a skill that borders on having an illness since one can never stop tweaking a layout. Like you I thouroughly enjoy viewing some exeptional designs here and then I begin to "tweak" in my own mind and try to envision how it can be enhanced...!!

JP

 

[ndemond]

I married a sign painter-and didn't have a choice but to learn to lay out a sign or a billboard. Climbing on scaffolding and pouncing patterns on a tiffen panel or better yet using an overhead to blow up someones logo from a transparency. But he was the true artist when he picked up his brushes and made all those chalk lines come to life.

Now he couldn't get past the first click in Corel but still stands at my shoulder at times and tells me to move this, make something smaller or add a line. And I will sit back when we are finished and think, why I didn't think of that.

I now consider myself an established designer and think I am pretty good at it. This week we had a design come in from someone that had a"graphic designer" design a new 10' x 24" billboard for them. The design was sent to me in all the right formats but it had no less than 25 words on it. This was being displayed on a major highway at 65 miles an hour. Would have looked great in a magazine. I showed them theirs then the one I designed with 10 words and a phone number, no special effects etc. They ended up choosing the one I designed (they were also out over 400.00 to the graphic designer).

Its hard for someone just starting out to know that just because you have all the power of you design software, it is not necessary to use it all the time.


Nancy

 

[Bigdawg]

I know part of my problem is transitioning from print design to sign design. Thought it would be a snap... it's not. Whole different world. And I was designing signs for a year or so before I realized it. Ouch.

 

[mrchips]

With a couple of very rare exceptions, I'd say I'm at the monument level................like those you see all over the place in cemeteries.

:Oops:



Joe,

Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!

 

[SignManiac]

I'm a half ass self taught sign designer lucky enough to have one good eye that can tell if something looks good or sucks. I'm old, tired, and too lazy to try and become a great designer so I settle most times for what I put out. Fortunately, it's better than the local competition so I can still make a descent living making clients look good.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

i started working for a sign shop when i was 18 with absolutely no idea what i was doing....my aunt (boss) slowly taught me the basics of sign design...she was an old school hand letterer, and i hate to say, but her designs seemed very simple (though i didn't know this at the time)....

she died a couple years back and i came along with the business when the new owners took over...the one new boss was actually my aunt's first employee and had since gone to college, worked for a few different sign shops, and was out on his own...initially, i learned a good deal more from him...

BUT honestly, i'd have to say i've learned a lot from grazing through the galleries on here....i see something i really like and then keep it in mind and hopefully use it later...

for the most part, i don't get a chance to really "play" around with a layout...time/$$ just doesn't allow it....but on those few projects where i can (like a local annual music festival that marks work orders "make it pretty") i enjoy it thoroughly...

 

[signgal]

So, I've been thinking about how to answer this since reading it earlier today... first off, thank you, Stacy for finally naming what I do, for me.. commercial design... I like it! and better yet, I'm proud of it.

I've been an "artist" since I could hold a pencil. I didn't even know you could make any money at it. Then my Dad introduced me to the advertising world and I just seemed to have a knack for layout and what's effective. I started reading and learning and apprenticing and still do. Gah! I get soooo mad at myself when I didn't come up with something I should have. I know it does take an eye though and i give myself credit for that.

Anyway, I like being able to create a clean, concise layout for a simple sign. My customers are usually thrilled and surprised with the effectiveness of their little signs and I like being able to bring that to them. I looooove when I'm given the freedom to really create but I know I've got a long way to go when it comes to logo design and graphic arts. IT's all a journey.

This site has definitely kicked my inspiration into gear and I'm so thrilled I found you all.

 

[Replicator]

I too have always had artistic ability, but the world of logo and brand design is somewhat new to me . . .

I also agree that not all my clients will be high end clients, but I am working towards having all my designs be high end no matter what.

I have a long way to go, but work at all the time !