Gino
Premium Subscriber
And here I thought with it being a New Year and all, we could start over and become friends.
Oh you hurt my feelings now. 
Have it your way................. :snarky
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Am I the crazy one?
- Thread starter thinksigns
- Start date
And here I thought with it being a New Year and all, we could start over and become friends.
Oh you hurt my feelings now. And here I thought with it being a New Year and all, we could start over and become friends.
Have it your way................. :snarky
You are a weird, mean person and you show this by your posts. I feel sorry for you.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Ya know what there play..... this next thing is not meant towards you but at many people just like you, but still including you.
There are many ways of stating things. Some people say if ya have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. I guess those are the 'Thumpers' of the world. Others will say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Musta been Mr Ed. Still yet, others will say ya need a thick skin to survive this place and still others just come here to talk jack. I tend to come here, help where I can and if ya don't like my delivery, don't listen. I'm no politician and I'm not looking to be Mr Popularity. If ya can't take the heat, get outta the kitchen. Seldom do I miss, but there have been those occasions... and I will admit if I'm wrong. I know Fred thought he was wrong once, but found out he wasn't, so he's at the top of the list of people being 100% correct that I know of.
Many answers come in all kindsa fashions. Look for the the good in it, take it, decide if ya wanna make it yours or not and then move on. One can only learn if they keep an open mind and listen to everything, including the bad, so just let it go or see a therapist, cause ya ain't raining on my parade with your dumb comebacks. I could care less what many of you think or say about me. Only a vain person would want to be pleasing to everyone all the time. Is that you ?? T'aint me, for darn sure. I bring no baggage to the party, whereas you and some of your friends bring so much baggage, it ain't even funny. Til you're done going through all the baggage, you've lost sight of what you were doing in the first place. Must be kinda hard doing it your way.
So, I invite you to come down off that high horse of yours and mingle with the common people a little and experience the nicer things in life..... real life, not your make-pretend one.
C
ColoPrinthead
Guest
And once again we are blessed with another chapter from the book of Gino 
Gino
Premium Subscriber
And once again we are blessed with another chapter from the book of Gino
You're quite welcome. Now go get drunk and watch a bear tonight.
thewood
New Member
Sadly, I've witnessed this numerous times from clients. I've actually had clients ask for full-size proofs for 4' x 8' signs because they couldn't envision what it would look like from an 8.5" x 11" proof.
Client: You mean you don't do full-size proofs?
Me: Sure we do. They're called signs.
I need a drink after reading this thread.
Joe Diaz
New Member
...and if you don't want to listen I'll complain to your mom."
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Finally got to my desk...
I'll just address those who can benefit from this...
(Gigi said I have to play nice)
This is how it's done in our studio... even a girl can do it!
(boy am I gonna get it)
Not saying everyone should do it this way. I think when
dealing with muggles (non-design folk) you give them
enough information to approve the proof with the least
pain as possible.
I'll just address those who can benefit from this...
(Gigi said I have to play nice)
This is how it's done in our studio... even a girl can do it!
(boy am I gonna get it)
Not saying everyone should do it this way. I think when
dealing with muggles (non-design folk) you give them
enough information to approve the proof with the least
pain as possible.
Attachments
Joe Diaz
New Member
I don't think you are crazy. It seems to me like everything we do has a certain amount of risk vs reward. For a small job like this you could choose not to do extra work it would take to draw out the dimensions, that time you save turns into extra profit, (your reward), however it would be at the risk of the client not fully understanding what they are buying. In this case I would bet that it wasn't so much that the client didn't understand but is more likely looking for an opportunity to request a discount. Either way it's still a risk that these things might happen if you don't dot your i's and cross your t's.
So you need to ask yourself, is this happening enough times to you that the consequences from the risk of not including that information out weighs the benefits of the time and money you save? It's probably different for different shops I would imagine. I know for smaller jobs we won't go through the trouble of drawing something like what Rick posted because the risk of it coming back to bite us is extremely low, but for larger jobs we will go above and beyond to protect ourselves.
NOW it sounds like the risk vs reward decision that needs to be made is whether or not redoing the job at the short term cost of your business will result in a profitable long term relationship with your client.
So you need to ask yourself, is this happening enough times to you that the consequences from the risk of not including that information out weighs the benefits of the time and money you save? It's probably different for different shops I would imagine. I know for smaller jobs we won't go through the trouble of drawing something like what Rick posted because the risk of it coming back to bite us is extremely low, but for larger jobs we will go above and beyond to protect ourselves.
NOW it sounds like the risk vs reward decision that needs to be made is whether or not redoing the job at the short term cost of your business will result in a profitable long term relationship with your client.
...and if you don't want to listen I'll complain to your mom."
I didn't read any of his long winded pontifications. Will he be crying to my mom?
thinksigns
SnowFlake
I do want to thank everyone for their opinions on this. This thread did get a bit out of control.
I've sent them samples just like this for years and this is the first time this has happened. I do feel that even if I included the letter height the art would have been approved and I would still be in this position. If they said from the beginning that it was their fault I probably would have fixed it for free right off the bat. It was them expecting a discount that rubbed me the wrong way. As I said earlier, this is my very first customer when I went out on my own, so I guess I can cut them some slack. (But a big uptick in price is in their future).
I've sent them samples just like this for years and this is the first time this has happened. I do feel that even if I included the letter height the art would have been approved and I would still be in this position. If they said from the beginning that it was their fault I probably would have fixed it for free right off the bat. It was them expecting a discount that rubbed me the wrong way. As I said earlier, this is my very first customer when I went out on my own, so I guess I can cut them some slack. (But a big uptick in price is in their future).
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Biker Scout
New Member
Most glass on those types of doors is approximately 31" x 72"
I think your drawing of the door is just fine. Although you could add a bit more detail. I have a couple of standard window fronts that I went through the trouble of illustrating so I can use for copy/paste proofs. Most other times I just take a qick pic of the building front and do it that way. I always design in full size. But the window fronts are all designed in a 1/72 scale using the Pica measurement. 1 pica = 1 inch. That way I can print the proof on a regular sized sheet knowing that everything will remain exactly to scale. I only show the measurements on the logo. I don't usually do call-outs for the door. I mean, the owner of the business can look at his door and measure it if he wants to. I measure on site for my own verification, not his.
I've never had an idiot client as far as I can remember. Most just trust that I'll do what I say, then they write the check. I think that's how it's supposed to work. If I keep messing up, then no check. Seems simple enough.
I think your drawing of the door is just fine. Although you could add a bit more detail. I have a couple of standard window fronts that I went through the trouble of illustrating so I can use for copy/paste proofs. Most other times I just take a qick pic of the building front and do it that way. I always design in full size. But the window fronts are all designed in a 1/72 scale using the Pica measurement. 1 pica = 1 inch. That way I can print the proof on a regular sized sheet knowing that everything will remain exactly to scale. I only show the measurements on the logo. I don't usually do call-outs for the door. I mean, the owner of the business can look at his door and measure it if he wants to. I measure on site for my own verification, not his.
I've never had an idiot client as far as I can remember. Most just trust that I'll do what I say, then they write the check. I think that's how it's supposed to work. If I keep messing up, then no check. Seems simple enough.
Marlene
New Member
I couldn't read thru the most of the posts as Addie, once again, has made it all about him so please forgive me if I ask something that has all ready been detailed out. you do lettering for this same client at the same location on the same type of doors? do you always provide the very nice to scale proof? if so the customer knows what to expect as each job has been done with a proof and then the actual lettering. they requested two lines of copy with a lot of copy in each line. they didn't request a "give me a layout with the largest letters possible" they decided the format and approved based on yet another to scale drawing that you have been providing all along, not your problem. what it comes down to is do you want to keep them happy or do you want to be right. we are totally right so there's no debate of that.
visual800
Active Member
You had a pic of the door with the "to scale" lettering on it. I DO NOT PUT DIMENSIONS ON ANY SIGN QUOTE in the case a customer wants to share art.
as far as this case goes the only way to make letters larger is to stack them correct? Your price is too low for this job anyway you already lost do it over for free and make it up elsewhere
as far as this case goes the only way to make letters larger is to stack them correct? Your price is too low for this job anyway you already lost do it over for free and make it up elsewhere
ddubia
New Member
I think the proof is fine. This is your door, this is what the lettering will look like on your door. Simple as that.
If the job were done and you stood back and took a picture of it would you need to know the letter height in order to know what the lettering looks like on the door?
Who cares what the numbers are. If you told the customer the letter height without a proof would it make any sense to them? Probably not.
If you're targeting a required reading distance then the numbers are important. In a case like that you may want to indicate on the proof the lettering size and maximum readable distance as well as the viewing distance for maximum impact.
If the job were done and you stood back and took a picture of it would you need to know the letter height in order to know what the lettering looks like on the door?
Who cares what the numbers are. If you told the customer the letter height without a proof would it make any sense to them? Probably not.
If you're targeting a required reading distance then the numbers are important. In a case like that you may want to indicate on the proof the lettering size and maximum readable distance as well as the viewing distance for maximum impact.
Billct2
Active Member
Rick, That's a nice sketch and definately very complete, but I think the time spent calling out every design like that would be hard to justify on many of the small jobs we are constantly doing. And the type of client who doesn't get the OPs original sketch might not do any better with all that information. What do you do if after all that they still say "I thought it would be bigger".