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Am I the crazy one?
- Thread starter thinksigns
- Start date
Gino
Premium Subscriber
If I catch your drift, you do the lettering at this building for various tenants ??
If so, why aren't all the tenants doors uniform ?? I mean, when we do a professional building, all the details are ironed out on the first one or two doors. In this way, the management company or the person in charge of getting these doors lettered is always on the same page with you. Other than a scaled drawing of the door with the lettering as you indicated, that should be more than enough on a repeat kinda job like this.
We have many professional buildings in where we letter doors along with a pylon or sign out front by the road. There is no guesswork on anyone's part. I supply a proof, mostly for them to make sure everything is spelled correctly. The colors, sizes and available spacing is known before we even get the job.
Personally, I think you're going in much too cheap for the type of job. Hence, why you'd be able to do one over, should you mess something up. It's called a built in loss factor. If they can't wait for you to come out at your convenience, then it's gonna be on your dime..... and you go do it. You don't have a customer put it on, unless they screwed something up royally and wanna save some money.
Also, Addie's input is very helpful. Nowhere will you find such knowledgeable insight on the business workings both monetarily and ethically so f*cked up as only he can do so well. This should benefit any viewer as what NOT to do. He means well, but between his buying several 50" televisions for tax write-offs, going to Northern California to learn how to lay down vinyl [for 1/2 price] and going camping with someone else's kids, he's really going in circles and can't think straight. Musta been the hectic holidays.
If so, why aren't all the tenants doors uniform ?? I mean, when we do a professional building, all the details are ironed out on the first one or two doors. In this way, the management company or the person in charge of getting these doors lettered is always on the same page with you. Other than a scaled drawing of the door with the lettering as you indicated, that should be more than enough on a repeat kinda job like this.
We have many professional buildings in where we letter doors along with a pylon or sign out front by the road. There is no guesswork on anyone's part. I supply a proof, mostly for them to make sure everything is spelled correctly. The colors, sizes and available spacing is known before we even get the job.
Personally, I think you're going in much too cheap for the type of job. Hence, why you'd be able to do one over, should you mess something up. It's called a built in loss factor. If they can't wait for you to come out at your convenience, then it's gonna be on your dime..... and you go do it. You don't have a customer put it on, unless they screwed something up royally and wanna save some money.
Also, Addie's input is very helpful. Nowhere will you find such knowledgeable insight on the business workings both monetarily and ethically so f*cked up as only he can do so well. This should benefit any viewer as what NOT to do. He means well, but between his buying several 50" televisions for tax write-offs, going to Northern California to learn how to lay down vinyl [for 1/2 price] and going camping with someone else's kids, he's really going in circles and can't think straight. Musta been the hectic holidays.
:ROFLMAO:
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
If I were a betting man ... I would guess you don't know how to use paint or do measurements since by that photo the glass is 2" wide and the area on the glass you measured is 3' tall ... and since the text takes up about 2/5ths that measurement ... 14" tall for the text?
I realize you were just trying to give an example ... do it correctly so it seems like you know what you are talking about.
Locals Find!
New Member
Not a lack of knowledge. Not everyone possesses the same tools. I based my opinion off using the lowest most common tool available MS Paint.
I was simply making a point that, you yourself have even just justified. That it isn't that hard to give some reference points as to scale for a client.
Of course, this Broker is also smart enough to have readily available samples of various common size letters and numbers as a reference point. To avoid issues like this before the proof even goes out or gets installed.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Good grief, in the short time I posted, the miracle sign person has reached an even higher plateau. I think he's buying internet hooch from Colorado stores for recreational use and abusing himself. This designing midget has now proven himself even further of what his true capabilities are.
- First of all, the designer from [the other Florida] has a lettering proof diagram of 2 inches wide and 3 feet high. Yep, he's does well at these things.
- He has the arrows in the wrong place
indicating placement wrongly.
[*]He's not using any registration marks to show start and endings.
thinksigns
SnowFlake
If I catch your drift, you do the lettering at this building for various tenants ??
If so, why aren't all the tenants doors uniform ?? I mean, when we do a professional building, all the details are ironed out on the first one or two doors. In this way, the management company or the person in charge of getting these doors lettered is always on the same page with you. Other than a scaled drawing of the door with the lettering as you indicated, that should be more than enough on a repeat kinda job like this.
We have many professional buildings in where we letter doors along with a pylon or sign out front by the road. There is no guesswork on anyone's part. I supply a proof, mostly for them to make sure everything is spelled correctly. The colors, sizes and available spacing is known before we even get the job.
Personally, I think you're going in much too cheap for the type of job. Hence, why you'd be able to do one over, should you mess something up. It's called a built in loss factor. If they can't wait for you to come out at your convenience, then it's gonna be on your dime..... and you go do it. You don't have a customer put it on, unless they screwed something up royally and wanna save some money.
Also, Addie's input is very helpful. Nowhere will you find such knowledgeable insight on the business workings both monetarily and ethically so f*cked up as only he can do so well. This should benefit any viewer as what NOT to do. He means well, but between his buying several 50" televisions for tax write-offs, going to Northern California to learn how to lay down vinyl [for 1/2 price] and going camping with someone else's kids, he's really going in circles and can't think straight. Musta been the hectic holidays.
:ROFLMAO:
Yes, I do the letters for all the tenants here. Normally it is 2" Arial Bold, but they requested each company be on one line. This complex was actually my invoice #10001, but the people working there have changed over the years. When I first started, my shop was less than a mile from them and they were on my way home. I moved from their part of town 8 years ago. A year ago I actually bumped the price up to $50 and they weren't happy about that.
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
Addie you are killing me. As a broker you probably don't understand that "various common size letters" means dink when it comes to typefaces. Lets take 3 common typefaces for example (Impact, Helvetica Black and whats a decent extended font ... blackoak) 1" tall letters look different just with those styles of lettering ... all three are solid thick lettering, but if I were to place them up on a door ... impact would look dwarfed compared to black oak ... and if I make them the width of the door keeping it proportionate ... blackoak being about 1/3 the height would be miniscule in comparison to impact. Helvetica alone could be the right choice, but even then, with a massive height difference when sizing gets up there ... what ... do you have a giant wall with just random letters on it in 20 or 30 different typefaces? or are you just dinking around showing them a folder you printed out a bunch of helvetica sentences in different sizes and ignorantly exclaiming "yeah! that Lobster font is going to be that same exact size!"
I mean really, is there like "common size letters" ?? If you are talking about standard gemini letters, sure ... they also tell you the typeface and aspect ratio of the letters ... otherwise every job would be different based on the size of the substrate, readability of lettering and design esthetic. Or are you one of those goons that takes Helvetica and crushes it into a 3"x12" area if it only has 4 letters? even then ... that would not be the same as your examples.
I mean really, is there like "common size letters" ?? If you are talking about standard gemini letters, sure ... they also tell you the typeface and aspect ratio of the letters ... otherwise every job would be different based on the size of the substrate, readability of lettering and design esthetic. Or are you one of those goons that takes Helvetica and crushes it into a 3"x12" area if it only has 4 letters? even then ... that would not be the same as your examples.
Attachments
Billct2
Active Member
1. Your sample was perfectly acceptable, though I also like to add a silhouette.
2. Your price is too low. Anything installed on site should be mote than that, like twice that.
2a. If you charged the right price it would make it a lot easier to redo it for free.
3. Some clients are clueless, I had one guy look at an 8.5"x11" print out of scaled sketch I did of a 4x8 sign and say, "It isn't going to be this small is it?"
2. Your price is too low. Anything installed on site should be mote than that, like twice that.
2a. If you charged the right price it would make it a lot easier to redo it for free.
3. Some clients are clueless, I had one guy look at an 8.5"x11" print out of scaled sketch I did of a 4x8 sign and say, "It isn't going to be this small is it?"
Years ago, when computers were new tech and colour printers for industry only, I showed a customer a glossy colour proof of his proposed sign Photoshoped onto a photo of his building. He got all mad at me saying I didn't have the authority to go ahead and make the sign and install it without his permission.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
nikdoobs
New Member
All of this +1.
In my experience most of the time customers don't know, or realize you are giving them a good price, and then they will expect everything to be super cheap from then on. It really only hurts you.
Unless they are big time customers of yours I would charge full price to re-do it.
TammieH
New Member
If this is a regular customer and if there is a good chance that you will be changing tenants on a semi regular basis, yes, I would redo it for free.
Most people do not understand scale or can visualize the size of the copy. If you can, when you do proofs show a full size letter or word on a second page
that they can print out, then they can hold it up or tape in place,
if its too inconvenient to show them in person.
Most people do not understand scale or can visualize the size of the copy. If you can, when you do proofs show a full size letter or word on a second page
that they can print out, then they can hold it up or tape in place,
if its too inconvenient to show them in person.
Joe Diaz
New Member
Overreaction much?
Jillbeans
New Member
I think your proof was just fine. Most doors like that are 36" wide.
Maybe you could have added dimensions, but that is pretty basic stuff.
I like Tammie's idea of putting an actual size letter on the proof.
People sometimes just don't realize things that most sign people can comprehend in seconds.
I think $50 installed is way too cheap and I would not re-do this for free, since they agreed to the proof.
That being said, there are hacks waiting in the wings who would do it for $25.
So maybe just FedEx them new letters and let them p!ss around with them.
Love....Jill
Maybe you could have added dimensions, but that is pretty basic stuff.
I like Tammie's idea of putting an actual size letter on the proof.
People sometimes just don't realize things that most sign people can comprehend in seconds.
I think $50 installed is way too cheap and I would not re-do this for free, since they agreed to the proof.
That being said, there are hacks waiting in the wings who would do it for $25.
So maybe just FedEx them new letters and let them p!ss around with them.
Love....Jill
So-o-o-o...... your point being............ ?? He liked your proposal or not ??
My point being was he thought I had built the sign and installed it, and was showing him a photo of the actual finished sign on the building. Once I explained to him a few times it was not real he settled down and I cleaned out his wallet of cash for him.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Well Okay, but I don't see how that has anything to do with this thread, but it does clarify another point of you not communicating very well with your customer
Pontification.
Edit: I am so glad I don't know you.