Anyone else disturbed..

[Gino]

Oh yeah, like you're gonna get a straight answer from someone who dwells on race-inequality, hate crimes and the 47 different genders of humanity. I'm sure his research is well-rounded out, huh ??

 

[cnewb]

By what is in the news this morning? My gut reaction is this was a bad move.

The 9 minute speech just given by the President of the United States is exactly what I expect from my President .
Iran has been a bad guy for over 40 years.
Period, end of sentence.
USAF veteran --- 1969

 

[Gene@mpls]

I would think a B-52 would be a large slow target now days?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Well, the speech was good... He didn't antagonize them and laid out the case of what we had to do. Fuck with us again and get swift action. Iran played it smart with the roman candles not hitting anyone in the eye, and Trump played it well too by not saying "nananabooboo"

 

[Andy D]

So you don't count the attacks by Black hebrew Israelites as hate crimes?
How about Antifa?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-sect-of-harlem-linked-to-monsey-stabber/amp/

 

[TimToad]

Well, the speech was good... He didn't antagonize them and laid out the case of what we had to do. **** with us again and get swift action. Iran played it smart with the roman candles not hitting anyone in the eye, and Trump played it well too by not saying "nananabooboo"

They actually warned the bases that they would be firing the missiles. They also sent out rescue and EMT personnel to the crash site of the 737. Hardly the actions of a people who want to aggravate an already inexcusably tense situation given the mental instability of the guy holding the nuclear football at the moment.

A lightly reported fact in the last week is that at least five Pentagon officials have submitted their resignations. Not exactly a vote of confidence for the current agenda. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...-official-announces-resignation-in-seven-days

 

[Gino]

Ya know, he said he would clear the swamp. That's all that's happening. Sometimes it takes a lotta studying to get it right where ya want it.

 

[Bobby H]

I was absent from the thread for a couple of days. Unfortunately, pretty much as expected, a big chunk of the discussion has devolved into the liberal vs conservative dogma nonsense. Certain people are spinning the notion, "our side is reasonable, the other side is insane." Pardon me while I take a giant dump on that. Both conservatives and liberals have their blindly partisan zealots and even more extreme people willing to inflict violence on others, be it a simple @$$-beating or something far worse -like "sovereign citizens" murdering police officers or blowing up the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Those "sovereign citizens" were really just American-born terrorists.

I'm pretty middle of the road with my politics. For instance I'm for gun ownership, but I don't think the government has any business claiming dominion over women's bodies. I have friends whose politics drifts farther right or farther left. When any of them overtly proclaims themselves to be liberal or conservative that pretty much sends a clear signal to me to never bring up certain topics around them in conversation. The farther right or left they go in their leanings means I'm more likely to hear an angry, emotional barrage of party line talking points. Basically they're going to be repeating what they heard on Fox News or MSNBC. Who needs to hear any of that nonsense when you're just trying to enjoy a beer during happy hour?

Going back to the original topic, the last 24 hours has been pretty odd. The Iranian military fired some rockets into an Iraqi base hosting US troops. The rockets apparently (and maybe deliberately?) didn't kill anyone. The President gave a speech pretty much saying we're going to stand down for now.

This whole thing isn't over yet. Not by a long shot. The Iranian government is getting back to its pursuits of building nuclear weapons. Meanwhile terrorist groups backed by Iran will probably bide their time waiting for a good target to strike. The first World Trade Center bombing happened in 1993. The far worse attack happened 8 years later.

I don't know if there's really any hope via diplomacy to convince Iran to be reasonable to quit the whole nuclear effort, not to mention its habit of supporting proxy armies and terrorist groups. Iran's government is run by religious, political zealots. Those guys are like an extreme example of a die-hard Fox News or MSNBC viewer. They have their minds made up already, so trying to talk to them is like talking to a wall.

 

[TimToad]

So you don't count the attacks by Black hebrew Israelites as hate crimes?
How about Antifa?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-sect-of-harlem-linked-to-monsey-stabber/amp/

Here ya go. A tad tongue in cheek, but useful nonetheless.

"After years and years of seeing this tactic used, I found this gem in Tim & Phuck It All's dictionary.

def; Whataboutism. noun. A specious and usually unfounded psychological argument tactic used by people lacking any factual or evidence based counterargument. Primarily used when confronted by a discomforting reality they and their bias won't allow them to believe."

Are you suggesting that the Black Hebrew Israelites are some left wing group, or that I'm excluding their attacks on others?

I consider ALL bias/hate crimes as domestic terrorism and should be prosecuted by federal authorities as such even in states that refuse to do so.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-hate-crimes-data-released-today-2019-11-12/

If you read the breakdown on the FBI reports on hate crimes, the vast majority are committed against minorities, trans people, Jews, Muslims, other religious minorities, etc... by white, male, anti-diversity motivated types. The number of "left-wing" inspired attacks are so few they don't even register. A big hindrance to the statistics is that many states without clear policies and hostility about anti-discrimination laws, hate crime laws, etc.. in general don't even report their hate crimes to the FBI, so the rates are probably even higher.

This has been floating around and while memes about it, have been stretched for effect, the overall statistical data is accurate. Either way, there is no denying that hate crimes have risen dramatically since 2016. In a good economy with high employment, supposedly with more financial security for all, incidences of hate crimes and crime in general should be dropping not rising.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...unties-hosting-trump-rally-2016-see-226-spik/

 

[myront]

[QUOTE="Bobby H, post: 1459580, member: 1891"enjoy a beer during happy hour"...[/QUOTE]

Now, you have my attention.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I liked it better when you were quiet Toad

 

[Gino]

Ya know, it has nothing to do with what color you are, what religion you are or aren't, what your gender is or anything else. Almost all of those so-called 'hate-crimes' are committed by dim-witted people..... and the dimwits defending them and trying to assign a reason to them. The world is covered by so many misfortunate people who have little to no brains after the drugs they get legally and then do these heinous crimes. Wanna label them, go right ahead, but we all know who and what this is all about. Reading that crap and its origins tells me all I need to know. It's like listening to a broken record. Same ol', same ol. Gees, get a new tune, this one is all worn out.

 

[Andy D]

Are you suggesting that the Black Hebrew Israelites are some left wing group

Yes I am, it's no stranger than people saying the KKK, who were founded by Democrats or the Nazi skinheads, who idolize a socialist party, are a right wing party.

The fact that white people are the majority follows that they would be the majority of offenders.
Looking at the offenders rather than just the victims, tells a different story.

In 2017, race was reported for 6,370 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 50.7 percent were White. ( much less than the white population at 71%)

• 21.3 percent were Black or African American. (much more than the black population 13%)

• 7.5 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).

• 0.8 percent (49 offenders) were American Indian or Alaska Native.

• 0.7 percent (42 offenders) were Asian.

• 3 offenders were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

• 19.1 percent were unknown.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/offenders

Additionally, there is some evidence that violence by racial minorities against whites is much less likely to be labeled as a hate crime than violence by whites against racial minorities.
Some research has shown officers are more likely to ascribe “hateful” motives to white defendants because if, for example, if white youths go to a black neighborhood and target blacks to rob,
it's seen as a hate crime, whereas in the opposite, it's seen as motivated by money.

 

[Bobby H]

Yes I am, it's no stranger than people saying the KKK, who were founded by Democrats or the Nazi skinheads, who idolize a socialist party, are a right wing party.

Prior to the civil rights movement many Democrats, particularly ones in the South, were very conservative in their politics. And some Republicans were more liberal. Dwight D. Eisenhower once said we has a liberal. In today's GOP he would be maligned as a RINO. Many people switched political sides after the civil rights movement. Bigots who voted Democrat became Republicans after the "betrayals" by JFK and LBJ.

Regarding those hate crime statistics, the numbers of crimes actually judged to be hate crimes is very colored by politics. One thing still holds true: it's a lot better to be white in America than not. Prejudice is still very common. On a positive note, even though hate crimes have been on the rise lately, they're also getting more attention. And the perpetrators are getting away with it less and less. Surveillance cameras are getting installed everywhere. We all have cameras and audio recorders in our smart phones. If some bigot wants to launch into a racist tirade at a person of a different race in a restaurant there's a good chance his behavior will be recorded and go viral. People have been fired from their jobs for racist behavior in public or online.

 

[Johnny Best]

Actually if you read the NYTimes article that Toad posted it says "hate crimes of all kinds reported remained flat last year after a three year increase". So we are getting better.
As regard to black and white thing. There was a black man last week who walked into a Jewish Rabbi's home with a machete and hacked people, and the black muslims who murdered a cop and Jewish people in New Jersey.
No KKK or people changing changing political parties because of JFK and LBJ.
There has been hate going on for a long time with humans. Lets blame it on DNA, sorry I have no articles for you to read on that to say its true or false.
I also read the NYT every morning, I don't read the crap that is political, like when I read the comics, I don't read Dagwood but go right to Tarzan an Dick Tracy. And then here for more humor.

 

[Andy D]

Two national political parties don't just magically switch sides, regardless of how some try to spin it.
The only thing that changed was the Democratic party started to lose political power, so they changed
their rhetoric, the outcome has been the same for black Americans.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but the point is, the notion that white America started going crazy
committing hate crimes under Trump is a CNN spin.

In 2012, race was reported for 5,331 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 54.6 percent were white.
• 23.3 percent were black.

In 2013, race was reported for 5,814 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 52.4 percent were White.
• 24.3 percent were Black or African American.

In 2014, race was reported for 5,192 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 52.0 percent were White.

• 23.2 percent were Black or African American.

In 2015, race was reported for 5,493 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 48.4 percent were White.

• 24.3 percent were Black or African American.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but

Then why are you?

 

[Eforcer]

By what is in the news this morning? My gut reaction is this was a bad move.

Not an issue and shouldn't be Obama got Bin Laden and no one said BOO! But Trump goes after someone that has Killed Americans and has orchestrated attacks at our embassy, now it's a problem. Why? Because they can't stand him. Any repercussions that comes from Iran will barely compared to our retaliations. Anyone that will defend Americans here and abroad is a president I can be proud of...

 

[TimToad]

Yes I am, it's no stranger than people saying the KKK, who were founded by Democrats or the Nazi skinheads, who idolize a socialist party, are a right wing party.

The fact that white people are the majority follows that they would be the majority of offenders.
Looking at the offenders rather than just the victims, tells a different story.

In 2017, race was reported for 6,370 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 50.7 percent were White. ( much less than the white population at 71%)

• 21.3 percent were Black or African American. (much more than the black population 13%)

• 7.5 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).

• 0.8 percent (49 offenders) were American Indian or Alaska Native.

• 0.7 percent (42 offenders) were Asian.

• 3 offenders were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

• 19.1 percent were unknown.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/offenders

Additionally, there is some evidence that violence by racial minorities against whites is much less likely to be labeled as a hate crime than violence by whites against racial minorities.
Some research has shown officers are more likely to ascribe “hateful” motives to white defendants because if, for example, if white youths go to a black neighborhood and target blacks to rob,
it's seen as a hate crime, whereas in the opposite, it's seen as motivated by money.


View attachment 144805

Ah yes, the old racist tropes about how the KKK was founded by the Democrats and that the Nazis were socialists. Boy, our educational system is really failing us.

Somehow, I expected them to get pulled by somebody here, but certainly not someone I have some respect for and assumed was an intelligent, well read person.

I can only recommend you crack a few history books on how the two major parties flip flopped their platforms around the time of Reconstruction and until the 1930's, the Democrats represented the old racist South and former Confederacy. After that, a good look into the differences between fascism, socialism and democracy is well in order to understand the difference between the purposely mislabeled racist fascistic nationalism practiced and promoted by the Nazis and "collectivist" socialism as practiced by others. The Third Reich was clearly and indisputably Fascist in its political and economic makeup and the workers did NOT own the means of production, a crucial requirement of socialism. Even the widely misconstrued belief in the U.S. that countries like France, Sweden, Norway, etc.. are socialist is wrong. They all practice capitalism, but in a more humane and egalitarian way than here.

What those statistics don't reveal is the underreporting of hate crimes in mostly white, right wing controlled states whose governments, law enforcement and citizens are hostile to anti-discrimination laws, diversity, LBGQT rights, anti-Muslim, etc... Organizations like the ADL, Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU, NAACP and others track hate crimes in those states and if the numbers were added to the full list you shared, the percentages would be skewed more accurately.

Aside from the racial and intolerance angle that drives much of the islamophobia being promoted on various discussions, this all has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I'll leave it right here.

 

[Johnny Best]

You da man Toad!