Are sign professionals just giving up?

[neato]

Since 90% of my work is for other sign companies, I get a chance to see how a variety of companies interact with their own clients.

Are clients just getting so difficult that sign pros have just given up trying to educate them on what's good and bad design and what constitutes and effective layout?

It seems like more and more I get requests from shops for revisions to art for their clients we've been working on that are just obviously terrible ideas, and sometimes not even possible. But the sign shop just wants to do what the customer asks. I totally get it too. I reach the same point with my own clients. But I always feel like as the professional, I have to try to steer them right.

I just feel lately like the industry as a whole has just gotten burned out and has given up on being the professional. Comments I read on here point to the same. The "just suck it up and collect the check" attitude seems to be growing. I know some cases call for that in the end, but are we all just too tired to fight?

I wonder if it has to do with the world of social media and everyone thinking their opinion is the only good one. Seems to especially be the case with design. But maybe that's just the old fart in me coming out.

Or maybe its just that sign prices in general have been driven so low by all the competition, it's not worth the time anymore.

 

[KMC]

i see this happening all over too, when you get the clients who come in with a logo they designed through a crappy app they loaded on their phone and are so excited to say they designed it, i do point out that this will not work in the space they have available why not try this ......BUT you cant fix stupid they want it their way

 

[neato]

I know it's hard when your trying to make a living. I often think about auto shops though. Most high end shops would never let the client bring in their own parts. They want the repair to be done the right way and last, because they're reputation is at stake.

Probably not a completely fair comparison

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

People love the crap they make in Publisher...how dare you say their design that took them all afternoon and their boss approved looks like junk.

 

[Gino]

To a certain degree, you're right on many points. However, I think there are more hacks than ever in this trade and people have just gotten used to mediocre to bad.... at best. They can't find anyone to impress them, so they figure they can do just as good as the so-called professionals.

Keep your stuff good and at least your reputation won't be tarnished.

 

[Solventinkjet]

The way I see it, if they designed it and you just produced it, they got exactly what they wanted. I just wouldn't put my name on it. Now if they ask you to do the design, then you have more of a professional responsibility to make it look good.

 

[Johnny Best]

I wonder if it has to do with the world of social media and everyone thinking their opinion is the only good one. Seems to especially be the case with design. But maybe that's just the old **** in me coming out.

I have a twitter account, the replies on anything political that they do not agree with is abrasive to say the least. Then comments on articles in newspapers is even more so. As far as design, everyone has a computer and can layout type for a sign. And, you will get replies from everyone on how it looks including the guy who they come to, to do the design. We are inundated with design every day on the Web, everyone copies things they like and think it can be changed very easily. People always change designs after they show it around and get others' opinions.
At least now you don't have to "reink" everything like in day's past and can be accomplished on the computer screen.
When I see someone designed something on here, my first reaction is I want to change something or have a better, in my opinion, idea. Guess I am a typical sign customer.

 

[d fleming]

When the computer entered this industry it went straight in the toilet. Those of us in the trade for years had to learn the new way just so we could speed up production to justify the lower pricing the new generation was putting out there because of their speed. The problem is the newer generation learned computers and hardware, not layout and design. Now we have a ton of absolute hacks that can turn on a computer and clients who expect a meal in 30 seconds at a window that only care about low price and speed. After almost 40 years I am doing what I have to do so that my sign income is secondary at some point soon just so I can pick and choose my work and stop doing the crap work just to pay the bills. I'm old and cantankerous I guess.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

If it makes you feel any "better", this really has been happening in other trades as well.

Unfortunately, even though I started back in '94 with what I do, I started really young helping my mom with her shop, so I'm not close to retirement. As much as I would would like to see this being passed on to my kid, I just don't think that would be the best thing.

While quite a bit could be said for the "ignorance" of the customer, even the people that make the "tools" that we use are to be blamed for some of this as well. They are constantly hocking the "one click wonder" of their suite and how easy it makes it that anyone can do it.

I just try to do the best that I can, while I can and that's really I think anyone can ask for. I've lost my share of customers, because I warned them that while I could do things exactly as they are wanting, it may not look exactly how they are wanting due to "x", "y" or "z". Some understand, some don't.

Just not like it used to be. Customers use to value the experts opinion, now experts are a dime a dozen.

 

[TimToad]

I don't know if so much folks "giving up" as it is, prioritizing the work that matters more ahead of the routine, identifying the PITA stuff more quickly and cutting bait on not wasting one's time on trying to force good design down the throats of those who simply don't want it. Good design begets more good design. After each well designed project we do is out on the street for a while, it generates more of the same.

Garbage in, garbage out. Some people in our craft just aren't capable of producing work that inspires enough confidence from clients to generate more of it. If they've given up, they may as well buy a roto rooting franchise. Making signs is a thing of beauty, fun and a creative vocation. If its just about seeking the path of least resistance from the clients and making easy money, there are plenty of more profitable lines of work.

I just left a Design Review Board meeting for a project involving some pretty cool looking signs we'll be doing for a complex of 5 spaces of retail, wine tasting room and a restaurant and 5 out of the 6 reviewers totally "got it" on where I was going on the design, the sixth was clueless. But they all felt it was better than average design and would be an asset to the complex and approved it without exception.

These are some pretty basic signs with a little extra depth and mixed textures, but the overwhelming majority of our competition would have just bought a scrolly bracket from Lattice, cut a simple rectangle of ACM and called it done. The client is ready to spend some money to have us make something above average, so we listened and a couple thousand dollar job turned into more than triple that.

 

[ams]

I've dealt with the impossible and the major pain in the butt customers. You try your best to suggest a better way of doing something and they will fight you to the grave with it. When you give in and do it their way, they get angry at you and say how terrible it looks. Sometimes we will turn down a job stating "You won't be happy with the finished product" or "We don't want our reputation hurt by producing that".

 

[Rick]

That's the nature of "sign shop" design work. Most sign shops are selling signs, when you bang out a good design and it gets grinded down to cr@p, you fight the good fight and get to the next one.

Start upping your design game then fire your "sign shop" clients, or raise your rates on them so the sting of designing ugly signs is almost bearable.

We recently fired a sign shop client, their clients were very high end, but when it came down to implementing the work, they ignored our call-outs and cheaped out at every corner. It got to the point where our reputation was at stake. These aren't small projects, in the 200k+ range... with 25k design budgets, it was a hit, but we sleep better at night.

Remember, good design is your problem, no one else really cares until something goes wrong or someone not involved says something.

You might want to look into higher end sign design and start getting paid so it's worth it.

 

[vincesigns]

Rick makes very good points. The spectrum of customers is wide with price only customers at one end, price is no object at the other and alot in between. Part of the process of evolving/growing your business is identifying the customers that are the best match your capabilities and focusing your efforts on those.

 

[neato]

You're making me think Rick. I'm not complaining about my customers, the sign shops I do work for are all great, great clients. I think they're just dealing with a different public than even 10-15 years ago.

I do wonder about going after some of the higher end work sometimes, but I would have to up my design game too. Without going to work for someone else, it's tough to find information or training on sign design. My biggest handicap is that I don't know a ton about materials and construction techniques.

 

[Red Ball]

The most discouraging episode in my experience was the young walk in client that wanted to letter his box truck.
He requested I construct the layout as I thought it should appear. He would then tell me how to fill in the empty spaces I had left.

Fired.

 

[ddarlak]

Dwindling middle class and the absence of good paying jobs has made industries like sign professions muddled with sign professional wannbe's.

Sign artists are far and few between.

 

[Marlene]

I think we all get the customer that thinks they know better than we do when it comes to signs. It just isn't the design but the whole process right down to materials and installs.

 

[Johnny Best]

I think we all get the customer that thinks they know better than we do when it comes to signs. It just isn't the design but the whole process right down to materials and installs.

I think those customers have become members on this web site.

 

[d fleming]

Todays example. I'm in the library this morning perusing facebook and on one of the pages pops up someone asking if any one does decals for those steel cups that seem to be everywhere. You should have seen how many cricket owners as well as "shop" owners jumped on it. If you have a 12" plotter apparently around here you are an advertising agency.

 

[Jester1167]

I would guess that since they are hiring you (neato) that they have gotten rid of their quality designers and now have a staff of paper pushers and sales people. Now their goal is to make (if they're not outsourcing production too) and install them as fast as possible, and on to the next. I imagine the people your dealing with could care less. It's just a stupid sign, give them what they want...

It seems to me that a lot of business have dumbed down their workforce because it's hard to find, train and retain average employees.