Avery vs ?

[LMSigns24]

Hi everyone,
When I first started in the sign business, I was told to use avery 6 year. Since then, That is all I ever use. I have absoltely no problems with people coming back saying, "it's peeling or it faded or it shrunk" When I talk to other vinyl shops, they say avery is no good or they reccomend the 9 year avery. When I look at jobs they have done with 9 year, it looks all wrinkled and it shrinks. Now that is the 9 year. Basically, my question is, do you reccomend 1 vinyl over another? Does anyone use the A6 and have they had any problems, cause I haven't.

 

[Replicator]

Welcome !

Oracal and/or 3M . . . !

 

[Fine Line Darrel]

Welcome, from Stony Plain, Ab

Arlon, Oracal.....you look around long enough, you'll find some Avery info you might want to consider ?

Fine Line Darrel

 

[Flame]

Yep, do some searches on Avery. They have a horrible name, and have treated a lot of shops unfairly. Even if they magically fixed their products, I wounldn't buy from them because of their customer service (or lack there of).

My favorite brand is Oracal, but 3M and Arlon have been good to me too.

 

[Fred Weiss]

The reported problems for Avery have been their A-8 and reflective series films. A-9 replaced A-8. A-6 is a calendared film with additives to extend the life and an overrated life expectancy. The real question is whether or not you want to even use products from Avery when there are better alternatives available from manufacturers that have no history of sticking it to their customers.

Understand also that when it comes to vinyl films, there are two methods of manufacture: Casting and calendaring.

Cast vinyl films are manufactured by liquefying the PVC with heat and solvents and then either spraying or spreading over a "casting sheet". Calendared vinyl films are manufactured by running a dough like PVC between steel rollers to form a sheet. Why should you care? Because you are going to encounter what is termed "molecular memory" as the elements go to work on your creations.

The molecular memory of cast vinyl is that of the sheet it dried as. The molecular memory of calendared vinyl is that of the lump it started out as. So as the material ages, there is little or no inherent tendency for cast vinyl to shrink, break the adhesive bond and peel or curl up. There is every tendency for the calendared vinyl to shrink, peel and curl upas it tries to return to the lump like consistency it started out as.

The process of calendaring is far less expensive than casting ... hence the much more attractive pricing. So for coroplast, banners, magnetics and other short term life expectency signs, it is an appropriate choice. Cast films are recommended for long term work.

You might want to look at THIS POLL which was taken about a year after the Avery A-8 debacle for alternative brands of vinyl.

 

[petepaz]

welcome
normally i use oracal or 3M but one of my local venders only stocks avery so i have been using a few avery products (A6,A9 and some reflective) and knock wood no problems yet

 

[OldPaint]

SHINE RITE form FELLERS......

 

[zmatalucci]

Just had another avery failure this week. A whole banner fell apart. It was avery a9 lavender. When you hear this stuff is crap,, listen up. I had spoken with a rep from avery about a year ago, and they assured me that these problems were behind them. So, we started using them periodically, and now this!
JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK

 

[gvgraphics]

We use allot of Avery and FDC products and have yet to have a failure. Avery has had some issues but I think some of the issues reported are user issues as well. Like not cleaning properly and so on.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Lunatic Taskbar]

Welcome from Nova Scotia. I generally use both Avery and Oracal, I'm not loyal to just one... just to the best price at the time.

 

[Techman]

AVery A8 SHRANK. Shrink. Shrunk. It didnt fail to stick. It didn't crack or peel. It shrunk like a popped balloon.
It tried to go back to its lump. However the adhesive stayed no matter what.

I had a roll of vinyl that shrunk about 1/2 inch while on its roll. I showed it to a load of people. Why? because the supplier refused to admit there was a problem.

After that debacle others who experienced failures for other reasons jumped aboard. Every one was pissed off. It didn't matter if it was shrinking or peeling or falling off. Avery got the blame. Even if the job was ten years old or a misapplication Avery took a hit for that too.

Why? because they would not admit there as a problem and explain it up front. Too many denials in the face of the facts. They finally admitted there was a problem after so many had too many redo's.

The compensation seemed unfair and not very consistant. No one was happy especially after some reported being offered a credit to buy more Avery product. Overall, it left a very bad taste that will last a long time if some have their way.

Why did they fail to recall the bad materials until late in the game? My guess is..
They didn't have an accurate tracking system on what the batch causing the failures. They didn't or wouldn't believe there was a widespread problem. Or, they wanted to find a pattern of failures and and then make a move to recall it. By then the damage was done.

However, many installers felt subtrafuge was the real reason. The standard blame was faulty instalation. Then the internet and its power showed the real truth was shrinkage. Shrinkage was obvious.

Some installers lost a lot of money, some lost a couple of jobs and a few lost only a layer or two from one job. It didn't matter. The anger was fuled by a lack of response. To this day avery carries the burden and is pointed at as the manufacturer to be avoided.

In the end we all make up our own minds by dealing with facts. Yes we trust our peers but we still must verify to see if the data fits our perceptions. Shrinking was obvious. It left a line of sticky around the entire job. Tenting and peeling from a bad install is obvious. It flakes around any area that tents but shows no adhesive around any other area.

 

[Fred Weiss]

My best friend whose main business is vehicle graphics, had to redo 40 vans in one fleet alone. This he did on weekends and at night so as not to inconvenience his client. He ultimately received a settlement from Avery which he accepted because "it was the best he could get". Today he uses no Avery in his business.

A major unknown is all the jobs that probably failed with no complaint from the client ... just the assumption that the sign guy who did the job was a fly-by-night.

 

[signpost]

I Had A Major Problem With Some A8. Got A Free Roll Of A9 To Replace It But No Labor. I Had To Redo A Van. It Had Shrunk And Rolled On The Egde. After That I Used Only A9. Have Had A Few Problems With The A9. I Am Buying Alot Of My Stuff Local But They Only Stock Avery. I Found A Place In Atlanta That Has 3m And Doesn't Charge Shipping On Orders Shipped In Georgia.

 

[LMSigns24]

Think I'm going to try Oracal

Wow, after reading everyone's comments, Avery is making me very nervous. Out of all of you that replied, only 2 people use avery. Never had a problem except for one police vehicle done with a7 reflective. It looked great when it left. It came back and all the edges were lifting. Of coarse i thought it was something I did, but i did nothing different on this vehicle. I shouldnt put the blame on myself for the lifting. A supplier talked me into Nikilite Reflective. Any comments on that? Thank you for everyone's response!

 

[Kevin T]

Mostly 3M with some Avery / Oracal thrown in for vinyl cut. We do quite a few emerg vehicles and use mostly Avery reflective and haven't had any trouble. We print to Avery's digital product and haven't had any problems. Everyone will have a diifferent opinion depending on whether they had a trouble or not. Good luck.

 

[Richard Flint]

Been using 3M vinyl since the Gerber 4b days way back in the early 80's. Never a problem. Made the mistake using Avery several years ago and wish I hadn't. (see above posts) Sure 3M costs more but it's definitely worth it!

 

[stickerguynyc]

i hear a lot of people have problem with avery but i been using it avery A4 for 5 year and never have problem with it... the only problem i have with it was with some avery metallic vinyl i put on a bike last year. and after less than an year it shrunk about 1/4 of a inch.

 

[MobileImpact]

I would used colored saran wrap with spray adhesive and duct tape before I let another roll of ANY avery product through my doors

 

[GK]

I must say that I use A6-A9 and nothing has been reported back to us as a failure. We don't limit ourselves to just use Avery and we also have fleet managers that specifically instruct us to use Avery...and we also have ones that specifically say 3M only on their fleets...sooo. I've seen the failures, but knock on wood...haven't been troubled by them.

 

[KR3signguy]

No Avery issues with their vinyl "so far" but had a problem once with their EZ product then it was resolved. The supplier was unaware of some changes they made, bad communication. I'm thinkin this ones gonna turn into an Avery hate fest.. It's quite funny how some people get worked up & emotional over vinyl especially the ones who really never effected. To those who were, you got the right.
Hey didn't Jesus teach us to forgive???