Building your own laminating table?

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Oh I agree the adjusters are a requirement for this type of equipment... I was just saying that the way it's implemented is not very good as the glass is too rigid for fine adjustments.

I feel bad that your table is that F'd and it makes it worse that they aren't willing to help.

 

[rjssigns]

What about buying a new sheet of glass? Years ago I worked with large sheets of soda-lime glass. It was used as the platen of flexographic plate making equipment, and could be leveled perfectly flat. Of course the glass was ground ultra flat before we got it. We used a custom bank of dial indicators that read in 0.0001 increments to set it up.

IIRC the company was Paragon. It was one guy making the sheets then finishing with his proprietary equipment. That was years ago and he may be retired.
A sheet with a 30 x 48 inch image area was $13000.00. Way overkill for the intended purpose, but I figured it may give you some ideas.

 

[astro8]

First of all, I can feel your frustration! I'm trying to think a way out of your dilemma.

I could not understand why the glass would be so warped and bowed, but after reading this link I have a much better understanding. I cannot see that the chinese manufacturers would specify any extra special flat glass.

Are you using a cutting mat? Rollsroller come with a softer, more rubbery type of cutting mat that I suspect would 'soak up' some of the variations in the glass surface. I do have a feeling that Rollsroller would be much more picky about the glass they are supplied.

Are you using enough pressure on the roller? Rollsroller use 6 -8 bar / 87-116 psi. We have ours set to 8bar at all times.

Other than that, I can only suggest that you keep shimming the glass and hopefully you will have some workable solution.

I'd disconnect and throw that heater thing in the bin. Probably electrocute someone, explode the roller (no joke) or burn your shop down overnight.

It must be very disappointing. I could rave on and on about buying chinese stuff, we all do it or at the very least are tempted, but deep down we all know the story...our worst fears are almost always realised.

At least they are consistent.

PS
Are you applicating acm, acp, boards etc or are you laminating prints and vinyl in pics and video?
These things aren't ideal at all for laminating, they are more for applying app paper, app papered cut vinyl to boards or banners, laminated prints to boards or 'floodcoating' a board with coloured vinyl etc.
Even a Rollsroller can badly wrinkle paper backed vinyl just by running the roller over it. We've never use ours to laminate a print (well, maybe something very small). We use our laminaters to laminate and the Rollsroller to applicate.

 

[Geoff897]

Yes very frustrating, It been 3 months and its still not in use.

Thanks for the suggestions, Ill be working through a few options with some specialized surveyor tools; Dial indicator, optical dumpy level and a Laser lever.

It is way too hard to lift the glass in every low point and add a small PVC shim then test again where the low points are and then find out it needed a 3mm not 2mm. So I have bought 100 of these which ill mount upside down on the supports. It will be time consuming process to install them but hopefully it will give better results
http://www.wwhardware.com/media/cat...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/sygheavy_m10x75.jpg

Ill use some timber blocks to raise the machine 4" to a reasonable working height

When i had their supplied/purchased cutting mat installed and i had the issue they then told me its not to be used!.

Mounting to Corflute works as its soft but anything hard fails, They first recommended no pressure to be used but another tech say .4/.6MPA (60psi) The issue got worse with more pressure

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Yes very frustrating, It been 3 months and its still not in use.

Thanks for the suggestions, Ill be working through a few options with some specialized surveyor tools; Dial indicator, optical dumpy level and a Laser lever.

It is way too hard to lift the glass in every low point and add a small PVC shim then test again where the low points are and then find out it needed a 3mm not 2mm. So I have bought 100 of these which ill mount upside down on the supports. It will be time consuming process to install them but hopefully it will give better results
http://www.wwhardware.com/media/cat...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/sygheavy_m10x75.jpg

Ill use some timber blocks to raise the machine 4" to a usable height

Wow those are awesome, how much were those... I need to find a US supplier for those as I have an idea I could use them for.

 

[Geoff897]

Worked out to be about $850 for 100 delivered. Search your hardware shop for "leg levelers" shouldn't be hard to find in the US, All my searching could only find UK and USA supplies.

 

[WrapSpot]

So back to the original thread title "building own laminator table". I am working to build one from a Gerber Solara Ion X flatbed UV printer we took out of service. The table is 5' 10' and very flat. It has holes for the vacuum table that I have covered temporarily with HDPE, but will add a piece of glass when completed. The original gantry has a very smooth bearing mechanism and rails that I am planning to use.

I am having trouble finding a good rubber roller inexpensively. I can find new ones from the company that built my regular laminator, but it is $1000 alone and I was hoping to find something less expensive if possible. Any suggestions??...I'm thinking 64" would be ideal, but I would not like less than 60" wide. The down side is that this will not be a lighted table. The upside is that I only really need roller, glass, and a lift/lower mechanism and should be in business.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

So back to the original thread title "building own laminator table". I am working to build one from a Gerber Solara Ion X flatbed UV printer we took out of service. The table is 5' 10' and very flat. It has holes for the vacuum table that I have covered temporarily with HDPE, but will add a piece of glass when completed. The original gantry has a very smooth bearing mechanism and rails that I am planning to use.

I am having trouble finding a good rubber roller inexpensively. I can find new ones from the company that built my regular laminator, but it is $1000 alone and I was hoping to find something less expensive if possible. Any suggestions??...I'm thinking 64" would be ideal, but I would not like less than 60" wide. The down side is that this will not be a lighted table. The upside is that I only really need roller, glass, and a lift/lower mechanism and should be in business.

$1000 is not bad for a good roller, If you go cheap shipping will quickly eat up the difference.

 

[ThatGuy]

Buy a cheap or non-working laminator on ebay or craigslist.

 

[reQ]

Now we have few mixed feedbacks on the product. I wish Zsigns would see the topic & tell us about his experience. Because he is completely happy with his table (i am pretty sure was bought from the same supplier)

 

[astro8]

So back to the original thread title "building own laminator table". I am working to build one from a Gerber Solara Ion X flatbed UV printer we took out of service. The table is 5' 10' and very flat. It has holes for the vacuum table that I have covered temporarily with HDPE, but will add a piece of glass when completed. The original gantry has a very smooth bearing mechanism and rails that I am planning to use.

I am having trouble finding a good rubber roller inexpensively. I can find new ones from the company that built my regular laminator, but it is $1000 alone and I was hoping to find something less expensive if possible. Any suggestions??...I'm thinking 64" would be ideal, but I would not like less than 60" wide. The down side is that this will not be a lighted table. The upside is that I only really need roller, glass, and a lift/lower mechanism and should be in business.

Sounds like a way to get a good table at a good price!
Couple of thoughts...
Our Rollsroller is led lighted but we rarely turn them on, unless doing a 2 layer backlit maybe, but even then it's no big deal. The guys usually prefer do the second layer wet anyway, so they can push and pull it around for perfect alignment and use a strip light under the acrylic panels which they sit on some foam blocks here and there to raise the panels off the table to slide the light under, get the print perfectly aligned, then slide the foam out and run the roller over it. No fails yet and it's pretty fast.

Another thing... I just checked and the roller isn't coated with as hard a compound as our GBC laminators rollers. It's softer, not all that much, but it is definitely softer. Full pressure at 116psi doesn't crush or indent corflute (coroplast) so we leave it set on full pressure at all times. Makes me wonder if the chinese are using harder rollers like a laminator which could account for some of the gaps you see between the roller and the glass on these chinese tables - just a thought.

The GBC's have red silicon rollers, the Rollsroller is a black softer silicon I think, hard to tell...our old laminators (way back) had hard black rollers which were some type of rubber but were very hard.

 

[Yellotools USA]

Has anyone out there thought of building their own laminating / application table? I have a hard time considering the cost of a rollover type of mounting table at 15 to 20 thousand.
I know one fellow that has an ezy taper mounting machine and he said he really likes it, and it is half the price. Any thoughts on this

We have this available for order now. It's made in Germany and shipped to us in the US. We just need the specs of the table you're mounting it on and whether you'd like our TimberMaxx squeegee or a squeegee mounted on the bridge.

 

[Geoff897]

Well after about 9 months of ownership we still have not been able to use this table, We have wasted $1000's in materials and jobs having to re print. Worst purchase ever. plus the $10,000 on purchase and delivery.

Henan Yingkai are no longer replying or offering to fix the machine, Pretty poor business decisions not to support their products.

The concept of this machine is so beneficial to our business we have tried many times for them to provide a solution but they are not willing too.

We have offered free Flights for an engineer to come and look at the quality/repair the machine. Also offered for them to supply new machine and we will pay the $4k in transport costs again. but instead they choose not to reply to our emails and Skype messages.

So consider that you get Zero support from this company once they have your money look elsewhere and buy quality machines.

Also many companies resell this same machine so be careful and don't support this manufacturing company Henan Yingkai. I wont names names but do you research you soon find out.

 

[ikarasu]

Well after about 9 months of ownership we still have not been able to use this table, We have wasted $1000's in materials and jobs having to re print. Worst purchase ever. plus the $10,000 on purchase and delivery.

Henan Yingkai are no longer replying or offering to fix the machine, Pretty poor business decisions not to support their products.

The concept of this machine is so beneficial to our business we have tried many times for them to provide a solution but they are not willing too.

We have offered free Flights for an engineer to come and look at the quality/repair the machine. Also offered for them to supply new machine and we will pay the $4k in transport costs again. but instead they choose not to reply to our emails and Skype messages.

So consider that you get Zero support from this company once they have your money look elsewhere and buy quality machines.

Also many companies resell this same machine so be careful and don't support this manufacturing company Henan Yingkai. I wont names names but do you research you soon find out.

Cut your losses and use it as a table :\ Never buy something that needs precision from China. Their motto is to get it out the door as fast and cheap as possible. There are some good quality products, but they're far and few between. At least if you buy locally, most companies will stand by the product / replace it if there is problems. As you can see, most of these companies decide to just ignore you.

Is your glass not flat... or is the table not engineered leveled? You can replace the glass.. I believe we paid around $2500-3000 canadian for new glass + installation.

They come in with a huge suction cup, and use your forklift to lift the glass up - Maybe then you can try to make sure all the metal is level / stable, apply whatever shims you need, and get it up and running?

You say it works on soft material... What kind of cutting mat is on it? Is it thick and soft like rubber, or hard? If it's hard.. maybe a cutting mat will work. Yellowtools offers the same type of mat Rolls roller uses.. And if it doesn't fix the problem, you have a really nice cutting mat for another table!

 

[Geoff897]

Yep an expensive lesson.

I was quoted roughly 3-4k for engineering glass that size. Soft mats dont work either, I even bought cutting mat from Fayon China which slices through and damages the glass with not even much pressure It also generates so much static its like a train to push the roller.

It's too big for just a table if it cant mount or laminate Ill go back to the old way to mount and go back to 2 smaller tables. Also with the glass at 300+kg's & 400+kg frame its not easy to move around the workshop.

I think we have decided to bin it and cut out losses. If we spend
- 3-4k on new Glass it doesn't guarantee to fix anything.
- If anything goes wrong, No support or replacement parts
- Plus all the other problems listed in earlier posts

Its probably not worth wasting more money and time, As you said best not buy anything that needs precision from China

How come you replaced the glass? Did you have the same issues?

 

[ikarasu]

We replaced it because we got a huge crack in the glass.

I believe it happened due to our abuse of the table though, not because the rolls roller doesn't have quality glass.

We've had it for 10-15 years and we do a lot of plywood, every time I see our sign applicator putting plywood on the table... He just drops it corner down in the same spot (Which just happened to be the spot that has a crack...). It started off as a small crack while applicating... which got bigger and bigger as more pressure was put on it. Eventually we couldn't use half the table, we use it for probably 8 hours per day almost, so it was worth fixing.

We are having issues where it's falling off its tracks when we laminate something over 6 FT though.. Always in the same spot. It's probably a simple fix, we just haven't got around to looking at it. But it's been going strong for 10-15 years, these are the first issues we've ever dealt with.

I think once it finally dies, we'll replace it with either a CWT, or a rolls roller again! I like how the CWT doesn't have a huge bar ontop of the roller... Sometimes it's a pain in the ass. But thats my only complaint about the RR.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

This frustrates me to no end! I'm sorry they are not making it right, it drives me nuts that they keep asking me to buy another table but they can't even support the ones they have out there. You direct bank drafted right?

Does Australia have foreign trade laws that support the buyer in Australia?

 

[Geoff897]

Yeah they recommended to pay that way. Honestly not sure if any trade agreements are in place, and the time to try and find out, lawyer costs we just don't think it is worth the effort.

They have already wasted so much of our time, we could have bought the top of the line rolls roller/CWT machines by now. plus the wasted materials.

When testing and laminating a 4 meter table you use about 8 meters of material just for 1 test. With some parts of the table 8mm off it takes quite a bit of effort. So after a few adjustments another test and so on, A roll of vinyl goes in about 6 tests :/ We have been through so many rolls.

All we can do is warn others about the Poor Build Quality, Attention To Detail and that they are not willing to back there products with service.

It really makes no sense to treat any company even the small sign companies, So many companies have asked where we bought it from and costs and from our experiences they are missing out on many sales. I'm sure many people who have been watching just this thread which has 7500 views wont be buying one or will pass on the risk to anyone in the industry.

Its a real shame such great potential but quality and service is much more important for our industry.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I think that is one thing that Chinese manufacturers struggle with in general. They make products but they are pumping out so much that if they don't have overseas QC they will never get a foothold in those markets. This is why companies like GFP, USTECH, etc are successful. They take the cheap Chinese product, invest the time to QC it and sell it for a decent premium.

 

[Mediagraphics]

Yeah they recommended to pay that way. Honestly not sure if any trade agreements are in place, and the time to try and find out, lawyer costs we just don't think it is worth the effort.

They have already wasted so much of our time, we could have bought the top of the line rolls roller/CWT machines by now. plus the wasted materials.

When testing and laminating a 4 meter table you use about 8 meters of material just for 1 test. With some parts of the table 8mm off it takes quite a bit of effort. So after a few adjustments another test and so on, A roll of vinyl goes in about 6 tests :/ We have been through so many rolls.

All we can do is warn others about the Poor Build Quality, Attention To Detail and that they are not willing to back there products with service.

It really makes no sense to treat any company even the small sign companies, So many companies have asked where we bought it from and costs and from our experiences they are missing out on many sales. I'm sure many people who have been watching just this thread which has 7500 views wont be buying one or will pass on the risk to anyone in the industry.

Its a real shame such great potential but quality and service is much more important for our industry.

Thanks for the warning. I've been considering purchasing their table, but now I am a little hesitant. They did contact me and sent a brochure with a completely different design (which looks quite nice). I'm assuming all the issues have been dealt with but it's hard to say unless some actually has bought one. I'm thinking of going to SGIA as they will be there to get more information.