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built a computer! Thoughts and changes possible.

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by bullcrew, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. bullcrew

    bullcrew Member

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    Here's the build:
    Antec server tower (6 fans and plenty of space)
    Abit IP35 pro board 1333 fsb
    intel core2 duo 6850 3ghz 1333 cpu
    2 160g sata 2 HD's in raid 0 (I opted these instead of the 2 500g units, it makes me back up my info on a regular basis)
    2 gigs of ddr6400 800 ram (OZ brand)
    1 250 g HD backup internal
    1 60g scratch disc for PS and windows temp files
    7600 Vcard nvidia
    2 19" widescreen LCD monitors
    500w antec 2.0 power supply

    Its for wraps and whatever else, any thoughts are appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
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  2. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

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    BC
    Are you getting ready to launch a Space Shuttle?
    Only thing I might suggest...you need more RAM, specially with the 2 monitors.
     
  3. bullcrew

    bullcrew Member

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    Yeah I figured Id get another set tomorrow but thats more of a I have 4 gbs of ram nah nah na nah na. I can onl utilize 3.4 with xp32bit but the extra 1.4 is probably going to be worth it.
     
  4. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    High dollar machine!

    With that much invested I would definitely say to max out the memory, even using larger sims which would leave a couple of empty slots (should you eventually go to 64-bit Vista). I can also say that with this much effort and money, you should look at a SAS drive setup.

    It will seem extremely pricey at first, but I can tell you that NOTHING comes close in reliability and speed, especially a 15,000 rpm. An additional two large 10,000 rpm SATA drives would work for data storage, so you would not need super large drives for the OS and the swap files.
     
  5. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

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    ..."I can only utilize 3.4 with xp32bit but the extra 1.4 is probably going to be worth it."...
    I would say the extra 1.4 GB RAM will be well worth it..on a high-end machine like you are proposing.
    Dammit..you're making me look bad...lol
    Ken ( 64 bit AMD)
     
  6. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    Not with XP...
     
  7. bullcrew

    bullcrew Member

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    Will the XP not utilize the additional 1.4gb, I treid to bump my PS to 1.6gb and it locked the OS up on my old system. Hence the reason I went and built this, I need more speed......
    I get tired of wanting and waiting, especially in PS when doing a wrap (IE at full size for a suburban) thats big. I am off to the comp store tomorrow to get the additional ram and a bigger cooler.
     
  8. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

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    I have a question?..
    Will Vista system improve ram usage..?
    I don't know...I am asking...
    ken
     
  9. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    ONLY in the 64-bit version. The usual 32-bit version is XP with more crap under the hood. MS is pushing their VM software to get people to make the switch. The problem with that (for now) is that programs running in their VM run slower than those that are running on an XP system - regardless of the amount of installed memory.

    That question is too hard to answer without actually knowing what you are currently running.

    Addition: One very big problem speed is that people very often forget to look at the machine "as whole". Bottlenecks drastically hamper a machines abilities. Once upon a time, people only considered the CPU. Today memory is also considered. Problem with all of that is that the CPU's and memory outrun the rest of the components, therefore bottleneck. It is has been proven that a system with the most memory, and fastest drive setup that you can afford, will produce the most "visible" speed vs. max memory and fast cpu.

    T - I also just noticed that you are using a 500W Antec PSU. IMO, and just that, you are on the lower end of what you should be running. You probably should be somewhere in the 700 to 800 watt range. There is a lot of amperage draw on your setup. I only run a 650 (CompUSA out of stock for the 800 and 1000 at the time), BUT I also found out that cranking up my D920 (2.8 Dual-core) to 4.1 will kill my now spare 600W PSU in less than a year, so now I am sitting stock. The next machine or upgrade gets a 1000 watter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  10. bullcrew

    bullcrew Member

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    I was thinking about that or one with atleast 4 power rails and also doing a CoolIT Freezone Chilled Liquid so I can overclock for whatever reason. I have seen pics of guys hitting 4.2 with the cpu and unning 3.6 stable with air. They are also getting 3.4 with stock fans and completel stable at 15hrs + running them hard. I am considering the liquid cooler for no other reason then to put it on and OC it. I am considering upgrading the HD's tomorrow. I dont play games but i like to have a machine with some HP under the hood. I also have been looking into the 8800gtx nvidia graphics card. I know i will never use it to its fullest but its kind of an addiction. I hate them most of the time and other times i get all "I got to have that."
     
  11. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    That makes two of that do not play games...mine is for work.

    Unless you are getting into video, you will only be wasting money on your card - IMO. The fact of the matter is that most people could actually get by with a plain jane 128mb display adapter, without ever maxing it out. Games, video, (sometimes CNC) and movies need it.

    I have looked at liquid for a long time. It just seems like adding one more thing to have issues with, and therefore I still run air. I get away with that because I have an older SuperPower server case, in which I have separate (almost sealed) compartments for the drives and the motherboard. All my drives are upstairs (heat rises) with 120 mm intake (lowing across the drives), and a 120 mm exhaust. Below is just the motherboard with three 80 mm intakes and one 120 mm exhaust.

    As for OC, which at one time I thought I would never do, I honestly believe that your CPU can easily exceed 4.2, considering my second gen CPU can hit 4.1...and remain stable with enough power behind it. I am just too cheap to go get another PSU, and I do not need another "extra".

    The biggest expense with going to SAS is in the card. It hurts at first, but is a one-time deal. 36GB 15k Fujitsu are only $169 at Newegg ($74GB is $259). Those are only for the OS and swap disks. No complicating RAID required. Your data could easily go on two 10k SATA drives (one main, and one for backup). It seems expensive but it will wake a machine up, and even bring one back from the dead. (Chris aka CDiesel is running SAS - ask him what he thinks. My system is still u320, no RAID, but still lightning quick).
     
  12. cdiesel

    cdiesel Very Active Member

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    SAS is defintely the way to go! I've got six drives in total: three in raid 0 or 5 (can't remember which) for programs and temporary file storage, and two in raid 0 for the swap drive. The sixth drive is setup as a hotspare. When I say I use the first array for temporary storage, I don't mean temp files, I just keep my files there while I'm working on them. After I'm done, they're stored on the server.

    FWIW, I've got a 1k watt power supply, and everything had to go into an intel server case cause it wouldn't fit in anything smaller.

    I just wish I could tell versaworks to use the swap drive instead of the program drive.
     
  13. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    Chris,

    I am really glad that someone truly "sees the light". Just curious. I prefer Adaptec, but what controller and model are you running? Better yet, what are the specifics of your array (controller, drives, etc.)?

    If I could only sell my 6x6 Workhorse, I would build another machine tomorrow.
     
  14. cdiesel

    cdiesel Very Active Member

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    I tell you what, I always thought the the processor was the biggest bottleneck in the system.. I have two machines running side by side with the X6800's in each. One has the SAS and the other runs two SATA drives in raid 0. The SAS machine runs circles and circles and circles around the other.

    I had my computer guy build my machine, so I'm not sure of the specifics, but he's coming in next week and I'll ask him what he used.

    We just moved our 6x6 workhorse to an employee's house to make more room at the shop.. You getting out of the shirt biz?
     
  15. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    Just the "squeegee pulling" part - actually been out for a while. Kept hangin on to the machine with the thought of eventually doing water-based stuff, but that is not real high on the to-do list.

    Yes, please let me know what the specs are on your drive array.

    You are not kidding about the circles and circles, especially when opening and saving some huge Photoshop files. Processors have long been outrunning machines for a long time, and cheap memory removed the next obstacle. Like I said, I am still running the u320 without RAID (even though I can - just keeping things simple). The natural speed and drive reliability makes the initial expense very well worth the investment.

    Bullcrew - What happened? Is it finished yet?
     
  16. bullcrew

    bullcrew Member

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    I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT! Thats my story and Im stickin to it.

    Nah I tried to install xp from a long while ago and it isnt letting me upgrade. I apperntly have stolen my own copy from myself (granted it has been on 5 computers of my own and my moms as well; strictly back up :D)..... Then I get it to go and I cant get the raid controler floppy to release 1 particular file. The others read fine, I tried it 5 times to no avail, it worked 1 time and thats when my copy of XP gave me crud. I finally got tired of it and now its at the comp dudes place. I did wrap my tower, looks pretty slick. Ill pop a pic when it returns tomorrow. I am curious as to the sas set up as well, what cotroller is better and what drive.

    Iwhen installing office (the one time before it bombed on sp2 update) it screamed through it like a stuck pig. Its fast!!!!!

    BTW: Its getting OC'd this week as well as a bigger fan till I pop a liquid cooler then its going faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    The PITA factor is one big reason not to build. I read about all the ASUS headaches for a couple weeks before I assembled it (even made a list) - si my build was much easier than the previous.

    As for your SAS question, I am not that well versed on the newer controller cards. It seems that the "connection" protocol has changed whereas the cards no longer just have one or two connectors that you can daisy-chain multiple drives. Instead we get the choice of a card that allows the use of 4 or 8 drives (on the lower end). I believe the card I would need would be the Adaptec 3805 but that puppy is about $500 (and I do not need that yet LOL).

    For the drives, I can tell you that the Seagate Cheetah 15k's are the best. The Fujitsu, Hitachi and the Maxtors are good. HP can go to hell - never again.
     
  18. Hey Bullcrew, just reading all the replys and most of what you guys are talking about is GREEK to me. But I am interested in fast.....because the Dell that I am currently using is slow, would you consider building another one and selling it? if so how much $$$$ just let me know. Thanks,

    Fine Line Darrel
     
  19. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    FLD - You CAN get these high-end setups directly from Dell. They will be under their business machines (not home). If you call them and tell them that you want a SCSI (pronounced "scuzzi") machine, loaded with XP Pro (32-bit) with the max memory (4GB), they will configure a cost for you.

    SAS is the latest version of SCSI, as SATA is to IDE.

    If you would like a wish list, and/or more explanation about what is what...feel free to ask.
     
  20. Dear PHD,

    YES PLEASE, I would like a list of what to buy? Just know the basics (which is usually just enough to get in trouble with !!) Working on wraps, digital images and printing with a Roland, and what I have ain't working that great. Any help....greatly appreciated. Thanks,

    Fine Line Darrel
     
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