My first real job in sales, I was a cold calling machine (back when we could do it door to door). Trouble was my desk was a mess, followup poor as a result. Boss came by and said 'Look at that desk; I'll help you clean it and get organized and if it ever gets that way again, I'll fire you". Went on to become the #1 sales rep, learned the importance of organization without ever reading a book. Good boss wouldn't you say?
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Business Management - 6/16/2020 - open discussion
- Thread starter Robert Armerding
- Start date
Johnny Best
Active Member
Sounds like you worked for your mother.
Na, mom was a softy, but still did a great job raising 5 kids by herself.
Johnny Best
Active Member
Congratulations to your mother!
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I don't like anything on my desk
Johnny Best
Active Member
What happened to Robert Amerdong, he posts something then drops out of the conversation. He did that with the X-acto blade thing also. He probably nodded off or on some Zoom calls.
He's listening.
Matthew Kissane
New Member
I've read Michael Gerber's books and Peter Wolf's Beyond Mom & Pop. I'd like to find something that better helps to implement the process & systems that are needed to grow this business. It may be an HR issue too, where you need to have the right people in place to help.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I just thought of a book I read that I didn't see on any of your posts. It's by the owner of Johnsonville Sausage, my past employer. The Flight of the Buffalo by Ralph Stayer. Each employee is given a copy and probably expected to read it? You sound like the kind of person that would like his business theory. I did not fit into the culture of the company, that's not to say it was bad, just different. Like most large companies they give you a personality test upon hiring. I had the opposite personality for the job but I had excellent references and skills for the marketing department and was hired. I have a strong type A personality they hire almost exclusively Type B personalities. During my orientation the HR gal said, "Wow, I'm really surprised you were hired based on your personality test." At that point, I knew I was in trouble and I hadn't even started the job yet.
I found it extremely difficult as a Type A to work with 95% Type B personalities. I would practically have a stroke on a daily basis. I have the work ethic that I want to get to the office early, tackle the day and get something done without lolly gagging around. I want things organized and efficient. This is not the culture and as a result it was very stressful for me. They would often tell me, "It's only sausage". Again, I'm not knocking it as the company is way more successful than mine so it's working for them. During an HR activity they aligned my 40 person team up by personality. I was studious and listened to each instruction, watching each person get lined up in order. By the time they reached me nobody is even in line anymore. It was like herding cats LOL Nobody was close to me, it was a glaring glimpse into my everyday life of feeling alone at work.
There is really something to hiring by personality. I still don't believe it's a good idea to hire so many of the same type of personality but it worked for that company. I do feel like they leave a lot of efficiency on the table but there's not as much stress either.
This brings me to a question for Robert. During all your research, have you looked into the personality tests or birth order? A great book that I've read several times is The Birth Order Book by Kevin Leman. My life experiences have led me to strongly believe in birth order. My experience at Johnsonville was a real eye opener for personality traits. I'm a first born and as I have looked back on my life every one of my close friends have been first borns, Most of my relationships have been with first borns and they never ended well, too much of the same personality together. Currently I'm with a last born/only child (an oops 10 years after the other 8 were born) and it is working very well, we compliment each other instead of compete.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on this in the work place?
I found it extremely difficult as a Type A to work with 95% Type B personalities. I would practically have a stroke on a daily basis. I have the work ethic that I want to get to the office early, tackle the day and get something done without lolly gagging around. I want things organized and efficient. This is not the culture and as a result it was very stressful for me. They would often tell me, "It's only sausage". Again, I'm not knocking it as the company is way more successful than mine so it's working for them. During an HR activity they aligned my 40 person team up by personality. I was studious and listened to each instruction, watching each person get lined up in order. By the time they reached me nobody is even in line anymore. It was like herding cats LOL Nobody was close to me, it was a glaring glimpse into my everyday life of feeling alone at work.
There is really something to hiring by personality. I still don't believe it's a good idea to hire so many of the same type of personality but it worked for that company. I do feel like they leave a lot of efficiency on the table but there's not as much stress either.
This brings me to a question for Robert. During all your research, have you looked into the personality tests or birth order? A great book that I've read several times is The Birth Order Book by Kevin Leman. My life experiences have led me to strongly believe in birth order. My experience at Johnsonville was a real eye opener for personality traits. I'm a first born and as I have looked back on my life every one of my close friends have been first borns, Most of my relationships have been with first borns and they never ended well, too much of the same personality together. Currently I'm with a last born/only child (an oops 10 years after the other 8 were born) and it is working very well, we compliment each other instead of compete.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on this in the work place?
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
We did the five colors personality test at the computer shop I worked for. We would test applicants and see how they fit the position we were looking to fill. Orange's (the salesman of the world) would not benefit from working at a desk in the back room all day focusing on solving some weird internet issue. Green's usually would be a good fit for most "intellectual" work. Gold's were good at organization, making sure people follow rules, Blues were good with customer services because they were more into their feelings. I was mostly Green.
You got someone that test 80% Gold, put them in a position to oversee workflow and operations. A Green? Put them into problem solving and creative tasks. Oranges belong in sales or outside work. Blues do well with customer interaction and human resources.
It was interesting to test people and then when we would hire them to see how they mostly conformed to what the test results showed. No one is 100% one or the other, but you could predict 70-80% of their behavior from those results.
Yeah. I sometimes wonder what's wrong with their toilets at home.
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Stacy, I have read several books on strengths and personality, but none on birth order. I am going to give that some thought. I'm the third born, 8 years after the 2nd.
So you were a Green Tex. Did you give the tests ? I see you said "we" or did you get the test? Did the Greens do the hiring ? Did Greens get special treatment? What would they do if Johnny Cash came in? He was a Black. Did all the different colors eat lunch together ?
Stacey K
I like making signs
I totally agree with this method! I never understood why they shunned the Gold people, and likely most Greens as well. How can things run without order, I just don't understand.
Stacey K
I like making signs
Anyone born more than 5 years apart from their siblings is typically considered an only child. You likely have traits of an only child and some of a last born also.
Just for fun...I'm a first born and this fits me very closely.
Firstborn Personality Traits
Simply by being a couple's first child, a firstborn will naturally be raised with a mixture of instinct and trial-and-error. This often causes parents to become by-the-book caregivers who are extremely attentive, stringent with rules, and overly neurotic about the minutiae. This, in turn, may cause the child to become a perfectionist, always striving to please his parents.
Firstborns bask in their parents' presence, which may explain why they sometimes act like mini-adults. They’re also diligent and want to excel at everything they do. As the leader of the pack, firstborns often tend to be:
- Reliable
- Conscientious
- Structured
- Cautious
- Controlling
- Achievers
The firstborn is often used to being the center of attention; he has Mom and Dad to himself before siblings arrive. "Many parents spend more time reading and explaining things to firstborns. It's not as easy when other kids come into the picture," says Frank Farley, Ph.D., a psychologist at Temple University, in Philadelphia, who has studied personality and human development for decades. "That undivided attention may have a lot to do with why firstborns tend to be overachievers," he explains. In addition to usually scoring higher on IQ tests and generally getting more education than their brothers and sisters, firstborns tend to outearn their siblings.
- RELATED: 10 Tips for Parenting Firstborns
Success comes with a price: Firstborns tend to be type A personalities who never cut themselves any slack. "They often have an intense fear of failure, so nothing they accomplish feels good enough," says Michelle P. Maidenberg, Ph.D., a child and family therapist in White Plains, New York. And because they dread making a misstep, oldest kids tend to stick to the straight and narrow: "They're typically inflexible—they don't like change and are hesitant to step out of their comfort zone," she explains.
In addition, because firstborns are often given a lot of responsibility at home—whether it's helping with chores or watching over younger siblings—they can be quick to take charge (and can be bossy when they do). That burden can lead to excess stress for a child who already feels pressure to be perfect.
Middle Child Personality Traits
If the couple decides to have a second child, they might raise their second-born with less of an iron first due to their previous experience. They might also be less attentive since there's other children in their lives. Therefore, the middle child is often a people-pleaser due to the lack of attention he gets in comparison to his older sibling and younger sibling.
"The middle child often feels left out and a sense of, 'Well, I'm not the oldest. I'm not the youngest. Who am I?'" says therapist Meri Wallace. This sort of hierarchical floundering leads middle children to make their mark among their peers, since parental attention is usually devoted to the beloved firstborn or baby of the family. What’s more, "middle children are the toughest to pin down because they play off their older sibling," says Dr. Leman.
In general, middle children tend to possess the following birth order personality traits:
- People-pleasers
- Somewhat rebellious
- Thrives on friendships
- Has large social circle
- Peacemaker
Middleborns are go-with-the-flow types; once a younger sibling arrives, they must learn how to constantly negotiate and compromise in order to "fit in" with everyone. Not surprisingly, Dr. Sulloway notes, middle kids score higher in agreeableness than both their older and younger sibs.
Because they receive less attention at home, middletons tend to forge stronger bonds with friends and be less tethered to their family than their brothers and sisters. "They're usually the first of their siblings to take a trip with another family or to want to sleep at a friend's house," says Linda Dunlap, Ph.D., professor of psychology at Marist College, in Poughkeepsie, New York.
- RELATED: All About Middle Child Syndrome
Middle kids once lived as the baby of the family, until they were dethroned by a new sibling. Unfortunately, they're often acutely aware that they don't get as much parental attention as their "trailblazing" older sibling or the beloved youngest, and they feel like their needs and wants are ignored. "Middle kids are in a difficult position in a family because they think they're not valued," says Dr. Maidenberg, "It's easy for them to be left out and get lost in the shuffle." And there is some validity to their complaint: A survey by TheBabyWebsite.com, a British parenting resource, found that a third of parents with three children admit to giving their middle child far less attention than they give the other two.
Youngest Child Personality Traits
Youngest children tend to be the most free-spirited due to their parents' increasingly laissez-faire attitude towards parenting the second (or third, or fourth, or fifth...) time around. The baby of the family tends to have the following birth order traits:
- Fun-loving
- Uncomplicated
- Manipulative
- Outgoing
- Attention-seeker
- Self-centered
Lastborns generally aren't the strongest or the smartest in the room, so they develop their own ways of winning attention. They're natural charmers with an outgoing, social personality; no surprise then that many famous actors and comedians are the baby of the family, or that they score higher in "agreeableness" on personality tests than firstborns, according to Dr. Sulloway's research.
Youngests also make a play for the spotlight with their adventurousness. Free-spirited lastborns are more open to unconventional experiences and taking physical risks than their siblings (research has shown that they're more likely to play sports like football and soccer than their older siblings, who preferred activities like track and tennis).
Youngest Child Challenges
Youngests are known for feeling that "nothing I do is important," Dr. Leman notes. "None of their accomplishments seem original. Their siblings have already learned to talk, read, and ride a bike. So parents react with less spontaneous joy at their accomplishments and may even wonder, 'Why can't he catch on faster?'"
Lastborns also learn to use their role as the baby to manipulate others in order to get their way. "They're the least likely to be disciplined," Dr. Leman notes. Parents often coddle the littlest when it comes to chores and rules, failing to hold them to the same standards as their siblings.
- RELATED: Is Only Child Syndrome Real?
Being an only child is a unique position. Without any siblings to compete with, the only child monopolizes his parents' attention and resources—not just for a short period of time like a firstborn, but forever. In effect, this makes an only child something like a "super-firstborn": only children have the privilege (and the burden) of having all their parents' support and expectations on their shoulders. Thus, only children tend to be:
- Mature for their age
- Perfectionists
- Conscientious
- Diligent
- Leaders
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I didn't give them and I don't think you just get the test online. I was part of the hiring team... that was the hardest part of the job. I say "we" as in the company management / hiring team.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I took mine online from a link directly from HR before I was hired. My results were shown to me in the form of a chart. It was a multiple choice test.