Censorship

[Fred Weiss]

it called human compassion and undstanding that there are subject matters that come up like this where someone may need a free pass. I do understand rules and I do agree that we need them and that there is no free pass clause. his son died in Iraq, if that doesn't deserve a free pass on Veterans Day, what on earth are we all about?

It unfortunately doesn't work out too well that way. Experience shows that a subjective free pass will result in others thinking it's okay to jump in also with political comments. No disrespect was intended to Sign Man and the only editing was the removal of the political portion of his reply.

It may be useful to understand the criteria we use for these decisions. If the opening post was political, then the thread would simply be moved to the NHB. But moving the thread because a reply is political is unfair to the thread starter so editing or deletion is the normal remedy to preserve the integrity of the thread.

The decision to edit out the political comments would have been the same if it was foul language, a hotlinked image or anything else we have rules about that are aimed at keeping the forum a good experience for all members.

It is IMHO unfair to think or expect that moderation of member posts does not occur or to call it censorship. We provide a very active No Holds Barred forum where any member is free to post their political views, use bad language, etc. Our moderation of the open and premium forums has nothing to do with our own beliefs or positions. It is strictly an enforcement of the very few rules we set down for for the benefit of the majority of members. Use bad language and no one complains when we clean it up or remove it. Make a political post and expect it will also be moderated because our rules prohibit political posts in an open forum.

 

[gnatt66]

sucks when you feel wronged about something on a message board. just gotta remember that it's someone else's baby and you aren't always gonna see things the same. don't take it personally and come back when you are cooled down....

 

[Arlo Kalon 2.0]

It unfortunately doesn't work out too well that way. Experience shows that a subjective free pass will result in others thinking it's okay to jump in also with political comments. No disrespect was intended to Sign Man and the only editing was the removal of the political portion of his reply.

It may be useful to understand the criteria we use for these decisions. If the opening post was political, then the thread would simply be moved to the NHB. But moving the thread because a reply is political is unfair to the thread starter so editing or deletion is the normal remedy to preserve the integrity of the thread.

The decision to edit out the political comments would have been the same if it was foul language, a hotlinked image or anything else we have rules about that are aimed at keeping the forum a good experience for all members.

Dang it! I hate when you come back with an explanation that makes total sense and overrides my emotional response!

 

[Tharnpheffa]

what is sad here is that someone is hurt and feels that this forum has added to that hurt. i am sorry for that.

Me too.

 

[iSign]

First, my sympathy goes out to Sign Man Signs, and the family members of all service men & women, current or past, living or lost.

Dang it! I hate when you come back with an explanation that makes total sense and overrides my emotional response!

...the man is awesome... I will never be capable of such an even handed & logical overview, so frequently free from any emotional influences. We are lucky to have such equatability & wisdom at the helm.

I must also agree with Masters Touch. Everything in it's rightful place. We are also lucky to have a place for so much variety of discussion. Let's respect that fact with our posting choices.

 

[Marlene]

Dang it! I hate when you come back with an explanation that makes total sense and overrides my emotional response!

me too. my emotional response still wants to kick in but the logic in your explanation makes sense. what makes it so hard is his son died in Iraq and it is Veterans Day so it just makes playing by the rules really hard to get my my thick head around. not attempting to start a fight on the site, just had a real strong gut reaction and those are hard to deny.

 

[Replicator]

Hang in there Sign Man Signs, and don't jump ship on us just yet . . . We're still your family !

 

[Techman]

Unfortunately, you are not the only one who lost a family member. I am sorry for your loss. I pray we can mourn without the negatives added on.

http://www.mco.com/valor/499407.html

 

[OldPaint]

i was in service 1965-1969, because i HAD TO(draft), lost a lot of good friends to a really bad reasoned war. was told not to travel IN UNIFORM, because of how the nation felt about the war and its people who was serving it.
this day is for REMEMBRANCE & RECOGNITION to all who have given their lives to defend this nation, without PLACING BLAME or DENIGRATING any of the politicians who made these wars possible for WHATEVER REASON.
sign man signs, your personal pain, is something none can relate to, no amount of words will ever soften it. it is a loss that will never diminish. WE, ALL WHO READ YOUR POST, will feel a touch of your pain, because we know and care about YOU!!!!!!!! that in itself, is what is important.
if you would like to expound on your POLITICAL LIKE/DISLIKE of the politics of GW, please go over to NO HOLDS BARRED...........and say all you want to..............PLEASE, but dont leave 101, we do APPRECIATE KNOWING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iSign]

well, I am sorry to see SMS has had his account adjusted to that of "guest"
I will again speak out about my most sincere sympathy for the tremendous loss any parent would feel for a child lost in any manner, although I hope I never really know what that is like. And I wish to acknowledge again my gratitude for lives invested in service by the living & lives lost in service by the departed. We are all more free & more safe due to that service.

SMS, I think it was unfortunate that you chose to place the degree of significance that you did, on a decision that was made without the intent you associated with it.

I hope our moderators also know they are appreciated for their thankless service. It is clearly not in the same league as military service, but all men and women who serve others, deserve respect & considerate treatment, as do the rest of us.

If either of our moderators allowed this event to tarnish their day, I for one know both of you to be compassionate caring individuals, with the most altruistic intent, for fairness to all, & I hope you know you have the absolute support of an overwhelming majority around here, for the thankless job of striving for fairness in an imperfect world, where no single path of absolute unanimous approval exists.

 

[Jackpine]

I am sorry to see you leave Sign-Man. I am deeply sorry for your loss. I do hope you come back and participate. As a veteran of Vietnam I too have a hard time justifying our involvement there as well as in the middle east. I do however support our country's involvement and every single American serving.
God bless all Veterans.

 

[GP]

Ok, so I have had a couple drinks while "networking" but hats off to Old Paint and iSign for two really kind posts.

class act gentlemen.

 

[mmorse]

Just out of curiosity why weren't some of these posts deleted? They too are expressing political opinion for or against war...
I for one am grateful for his sons sacrifice and wouldn't be able to say so if it wasn't for generations who have paid that same price.
Let the man make his statement, if people can't be big enough to shoulder an opinion that differs from their own, maybe you should go play in the little sand box with the wee-tots.
Just sayin...

 

[David Wright]

. As a veteran of Vietnam I too have a hard time justifying our involvement there as well as in the middle east. I do however support our country's involvement and every single American serving.
God bless all Veterans.

Two conflicting statements lie within this post.

 

[Arlo Kalon 2.0]

Two conflicting statements lie within this post.

I don't see it. It is still okay in America (though not for much longer maybe) to question our government's involvement in the middle east. At the same time, as a true patriot, support our involvement. No conflict at all.

 

[iSign]

Just out of curiosity why weren't some of these posts deleted? They too are expressing political opinion for or against war...
I for one am grateful for his sons sacrifice and wouldn't be able to say so if it wasn't for generations who have paid that same price.
Let the man make his statement, if people can't be big enough to shoulder an opinion that differs from their own, maybe you should go play in the little sand box with the wee-tots.
Just sayin...

...after 8 whole posts here, you are still free to go so far out on a limb as to question the administration of this site, just as you are free to be questioned for the inaccurate insinuations in your post.

What's with this high & mighty "I for one am grateful" crap? Is that some sort of backhanded insinuation that there was EVER even one other person beneath this heightened level of gratitude you presume to elevate yourself to?

...further more, put yourself in an admins shoes & realize for a second that your "be big enough to shoulder an opinion" BS is an ignorant statement that fails to comprehend the challenges of maintaining as fairly as possible, an adherence to a minimum of structure around here... in that process, the moderation criteria are decidedly NOT what the admin's shoulders can bear to read or hear, but instead about what the existing protocol is around here.

If the admin's deleted stuff just because they didn't enjoying reading it, my guess is that your worthless holier-than-thou smearing crap would be long gone!

 

[iSign]

I don't see it. It is still okay in America (though not for much longer maybe) to question our government's involvement in the middle east. At the same time, as a true patriot, support our involvement. No conflict at all.

by the way, I also agree with Arlo. The concepts of "justifying", & of "supporting" are two entirely different concepts, & do not represent any conflict in my opinion either, regardless of where anyone's justification, or support is given or withheld.

 

[mmorse]

...after 8 whole posts here, you are still free to go so far out on a limb as to question the administration of this site, just as you are free to be questioned for the inaccurate insinuations in your post.

What's with this high & mighty "I for one am grateful" crap? Is that some sort of backhanded insinuation that there was EVER even one other person beneath this heightened level of gratitude you presume to elevate yourself to?

...further more, put yourself in an admins shoes & realize for a second that your "be big enough to shoulder an opinion" BS is an ignorant statement that fails to comprehend the challenges of maintaining as fairly as possible, an adherence to a minimum of structure around here... in that process, the moderation criteria are decidedly NOT what the admin's shoulders can bear to read or hear, but instead about what the existing protocol is around here.

If the admin's deleted stuff just because they didn't enjoying reading it, my guess is that your worthless holier-than-thou smearing crap would be long gone!

Wow. Let go ahead and clear this up since apparently some feelings were stepped on. Smearing was not my intention and I was in NO WAY insinuating that others are ungrateful, simply stating that I am grateful, whether or no I agree with the war, or past wars is irrelevant.
Also I was pointing out that other comments were made pertaining to government, politics, and war and those comments were left up. If you are going to censor, do it across the board.
So simmer down

 

[David Wright]

Cognitive dissonance?

 

[mmorse]

Cognitive dissonance?

David, are you asking me or iSign? lol