Client's email leaves me at a loss for words...

[GypsyGraphics]

Gigi, I don't think it does warrant a response. If you have given them the files, I would now be done with them. Don't get into a pi$$ing match with him. I think I would ignore e-mails, if he wants to talk, make him call you. Jon may have a better way to handle it, though. These people sure have been a PITA!

bigwebman, I haven given him the files yet. Should I still, since I said I would? I mean... he didn't even mention it. Seriously, I don't get this... i'm dumbfounded.

 

[bigwebman]

Since you said you would give them to him, I think I would. How are you doing that? Sending a cd, or sending them over the internet? Either way, I guess it gives you another chance to tell them how you feel.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

Gigi, when it comes to 'financials' you are just going to have to behave like a ruthless robot and you will be far better off for it.

Your clients will respect you even more for it and not stuff you around.

You'll come off appearing even more professional when you adopt this approach.

Astro, i'm curious... do you have an office manager or do you do everything yourself? Even the stuff you're not good at?

Maybe I need an alter-ego.

This may seem off the point but it seems relevant to me.

A community leader, Mr. Big, took me to lunch a month or so ago and made a simple suggestion that made a huge impact on my work load. He's often aware of donated projects I commit to and felt I needed to be more selective.

Mr. Big offered to draft a simple "Request for Service" form for me. Anyone who called asking for the donation of service, products, time or money would be sent this form. The requests must be received 30 in advance of their need. Mr. Big tells me, be sure to tell them this on the phone, because it will eliminate most of the requests. I'm to tell the caller their request will be reviewed and I'll email when I hear if "they've" approved it. Who's "they" i ask. Mr. Big says "it doesn't matter who "they" are; all that matters is that you don't give them an answer right then. Have someone else decide or at least give yourself time to think on it. If you don't have the time, you tell them "they" said we've reach our allowable donations for the month or quarter."

So while gg has a hard time saying "no"... "they" are ruthless!

The best part about his advice.... more than half the people that call don't need the form because their request is for immediate assistance. It's ingenious!!!

Now I just need to figure out how "they" can handle my financials, until i grow a pair.... though i don't see that happening anytime soon.

Where are "they " when i need them????

 

[GypsyGraphics]

Since you said you would give them to him, I think I would. How are you doing that? Sending a cd, or sending them over the internet? Either way, I guess it gives you another chance to tell them how you feel.

When clients are here in my office I burn a CD for them, but in this case, I don't want them here. So, I'd upload the files to my site, which generates an email and a send them a link to download the files. I decide if there is an expiration date or if I want to include a note.

I could just upload the files, no note, no response to his email and be done with them. Even though I'd want to say "here's your very expensive free sh!t." Which of course I won't say.

 

[Jon Aston]

gg, you're killing me.

It's not too late to take my advice above.

Give him the (I want to say 'goddamned' for some reason... You're a bad influence) files via the website, along with the note and (now) an invoice.

I might change the note slightly, to read:

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your recent correspondence - which gave me good reason to review certain policies.

Please find the attached files and accompanying invoice, which reflects current rates, terms, and conditions of sale.

Sincerely,

gg

Don't concern yourself with whether or not he actually pays it. If he doesn't, he won't get any more work out of you until he does... and his new terms of payment will be cash in advance of service. If he does pay the invoice, then he's sending you a clear signal that he accepts your terms and conditions.
You should still be prepared for the phone call.

XOJA

 

[weaselboogie]

Fantastic advice everyone.

But, you are expensive Gigi. That is not an attack, it is reality."

I find this very humorous and like you gg, I'm really not sure where he's going with that. The most obvious is that he's try to get you to remain cheap or free. Jon's latest is great and sends them a clear message with sending them the invoice.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

gg, you're killing me.

It's not too late to take my advice above.

Give him the (I want to say 'goddamned' for some reason... You're a bad influence) files via the website, along with the note and (now) an invoice.

XOJA

How can I send him an invoice when I already said I give him the files at no charge?

I'm guessing your not packing your bags to move down here, run my office and save me from myself???

 

[Jon Aston]

Sorry, I guess I missed that detail.

Give him an invoice showing the full value of your work (as I believe Doug suggested, now that I think of it) at 100% discount.

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your recent correspondence - which gave me good reason to review certain policies.

Please find the attached files and accompanying invoice, which reflects current rates, terms, and conditions of sale.

I've extended a 100% discount as I said I would. From this point forward, I am no longer in a position to continue providing services for free. As I am sure you will understand, this is how I make my living.

Sincerely,

gg

You don't need me there, physically, to help you, gg. Practically all of the consulting I do is done remotely, via internet and telephone. If you want help saving yourself from yourself... we can work through your challenges, establish appropriate policies and supporting processes, etc. See my "signature" below.

 

[Matt-Tastic]

It seems like GG has been fretting over this guy for a while. I think the frustration is past its useful point and i'd just give him the files and be done with it.

When I ran my own place, we just gave them the artwork with the design service. It reduced our need for backups (back when storage was expensive) and when a customer lost their disc, we could recharge them for the design (if we didn't "happen" to save their files) When a customer wanted to go somewhere else because they were cheaper, fine. Typically they would come back because we were faster/better/didn't hide additional fees/ or just plain nicer to deal with. If they "other guys" messed up their artwork, we'd charge them a revision fee to correct it. If there was now a deadline, we'd charge them a rush fee. Or, to preserve the relationship, i could waive those fees and "take care of them". You can decide based on how good of a customer they were, or just whether you need the money

Now, the caveats: all fonts were outlined, all files were PDF and all images were downsampled to 150dpi. Most clipart catalogs have a LONG copywright guide for what you can and can't do with their images, so many times a clipart image would be replaced with a jpg on the artwork i gave to customers (legal restrictions on the clipart).

I understand that doesn't work for everyone, but a lot of designs are pretty straight forward, and many of us include that in our production costs anyway. Also, a coro sign and a logo creation are widely different and should be charged as such. you can also provide 2 charges for creation; one that includes artwork and one that doesn't. This way you are covered either way.

I hope you get done with this guy quickly, as its probably taking you mentally away form your other work, and its people like these that made me prematurely bald don't be like me

 

[GypsyGraphics]

Give him an invoice showing the full value of your work (as I believe Doug suggested, now that I think of it) at 100% discount.

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your recent correspondence - which gave me good reason to review certain policies.

Please find the attached files and accompanying invoice, which reflects current rates, terms, and conditions of sale.

I've extended a 100% discount as I said I would. From this point forward, I am no longer in a position to continue providing services for free. As I am sure you will understand, this is how I make my living.

Sincerely,

gg

That just what I do with all donated work, invoice at standard rate minus discount! That's exactly what I'll do and include a similar note as well!

You don't need me there, physically, to help you, gg. Practically all of the consulting I do is done remotely, via internet and telephone. If you want help saving yourself from yourself... we can work through your challenges, establish appropriate policies and supporting processes, etc. See my "signature" below.

I'm not so sure I don't need someone here psychically. I can act tough in an email, but get me on the phone or in person and I'm a total pushover.

Probably too much information and should blow my cover but... I can write WTF, F'n and Sh!t.... but i don't ever actually say that stuff. If I put on my gansta hat, I can make a tough face, but it's doesn't usually fool anyone.

Can you fix that over the phone?

 

[J Hill Designs]

get one of those voice disguisers...that'll help

 

[GypsyGraphics]

get one of those voice disguisers...that'll help

I'm sure your joking but it's not such a bad idea!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

It seems like GG has been fretting over this guy for a while. I think the frustration is past its useful point and i'd just give him the files and be done with it.

Matt, you can't imagine my level of frustration with this. Being home-based and a one-man (woman) business... if I'm not with cleints I'm here alone day in and day out with no I can say... "is it me or are these people nuts."

Really, when it goes on this long and they don't seems to understand anything I tell them... it starts to feel like there no way to get rid of them. I say yes, I'll give you file FREE and they come back with "your expensive."

I hope you get done with this guy quickly, as its probably taking you mentally away form your other work, and its people like these that made me prematurely bald don't be like me

To be honest, this is bothering me so much, it has me thinking the next time a client ask me to come work for them handling their marketing full time , maybe I should take it. Although I haven't had an offer like that since the market changed.

I'm sure this tread is starting to look like a bad soap opera. Can't tell you how much I appreciate that anyone is still willing to read and offer advise. It's kind of like having someone else in the office that you can just turn to and say "what am I doing wrong here."

Anyway, I didn't want them thinking I was going to work over the weekend for them, so I didn't prepare the files yet. Ready to do it now with the above advice from Jon.

 

[RebeckaR]

This thread has been very educational (as well as entertaining. You should be writing a blog!)
I have found myself in similar situations and often the resolution leaves me feeling like a failure because I've been unable to resolve the issue in a satisfactory way for all concerned. Usually I just get tired and stop responding. Not the most professional thing to do.
I appreciate Jon's advice and I'm cutting and pasting his latest response. I think it can be changed a bit and would work for many situations. Hope you don't mind, Jon.

As far as having someone answer your phone...
Write yourself a script. That way you already know what you are going to say when someone calls asking for a freebie. I think part of the reason we fall into being the "nice girl" is we are taken by surprise and so we fall back into a place where we give away our power. Gotta stop doing that.

Or... develop a kick ass british accent and let your alter ego take over. She'll say things you would NEVER say.

 

[bigwebman]

Way to go Gigi, but like Jon says, be prepared for the phone call... I'tll be all apologies, and you should prepare yourself with what you want to say to "Bob and Boopsie".

 

[Jon Aston]

Thanks for all the mentions folks.

@RebeckaR - Don't mind a bit! Always glad if someone gets some value from whatever I post -- even helping a little means alot to me.

@gg - You might be surprised at what I can do from a distance. The questions is: Does it make sense for your business? But (IMHO) that (partly/mostly) depends on what you want to get out of your business, in the long run...and where you want/need to take your business in that context. And that's what we should talk about, if you decide to take me up on my no-charge, no obligation offer - down there, just below my signature.

 

[synergy_jim]

I always charge for file creation up front and give the client a disk when we are done with the job. No sense in me holding files hostage, plus I get paid for my time. 9 times out of 10, I end up doing the rest of their work anyways because the appreciate me being honest and up front with them.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

gg - You might be surprised at what I can do from a distance. The questions is: Does it make sense for your business? But (IMHO) that (partly/mostly) depends on what you want to get out of your business, in the long run...and where you want/need to take your business in that context. And that's what we should talk about, if you decide to take me up on my no-charge, no obligation offer - down there, just below my signature.

I'd be crazy not to!

I've already learned so much from you in this thread alone... not to meantion all your other posts.

I'll be in touch soon!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I've had someone ask about the wording in my "request for services" form.

Just in case someone else can benefit as well, here it is. The verbiage not the form.

Request for Service

It is our pleasure to support the people and organizations in our community. Therefor Gypsy Graphics budgets quarterly to oblige as many requests for donated services as possible.

Because we receive numerous requests, this form must be received 30 days prior to the day our services are needed, to allow for scheduling.

Please provide all group or organization information and details as to your specific needs. Requests are reviewed on Fridays and you will be contacted the following Monday for either additional information or to inform you if we are able to meet your request.

Name of Group/Organization:
Non-Profit information if applicable:
Address
Phone::
Email:
Contact Person
Phone:
Email Address
Date of Event:
Name or Title of Event:
Beneficiary:

Date you are requesting our services:
Description of services and/or product needed:

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I always charge for file creation up front and give the client a disk when we are done with the job. No sense in me holding files hostage, plus I get paid for my time. 9 times out of 10, I end up doing the rest of their work anyways because the appreciate me being honest and up front with them.

Not releasing source files is not holding their files hostage or dishonest, if it states on the invoice that they're purchasing high resolution PDF files. Source files do not come at the same price as a PDF file.

Certain clients under certain circumstances do get source files. I'm upfront, honest and more than fair with my clients. Which is why so many come back year after year.

and these guys don't want the source files, they want me to recreate all their job in MS Word!!!! And they want it for FREE... that's not going to happen!