copyright

[Just Another Sign Guy]

there seems to be quite a few topics that pop up in regards to copyright that unfortunately some people either just don't understand or they don't wish to understand.

for people that make their living in this trade (if you create any art or reproduce other people's created works) personally i think it is very important to at least have a minimum understanding.

these are just the basic misunderstanding that i see over and over again. please add to this, educate yourself and maybe we can stop the spreading of incorrect information around this place.

how does that one we all see go? it's for my friend's truck..he's a big (insert copyrighted logo here) fan...i'm not charging for it. or even better 'it's free promotion for them' lol

you guessed it...you've violated copyright law

i changed it X% so it is ok, mine, original..

you guessed it...you've violated copyright law

the piece i used as inspiration wasn't marked as copyrighted

you guesed it..you've viloated copyright law


educate yourself. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

if you bought a disc with harley davidson's logo on it that doesnt mean you can sell harley decals & shirts.

if joe blow in another town created a nice logo and it doesnt have a copyright notice...you can't use it

if you divide up a picture of mickey mouse into ten pieces and remove the buttons from his coat to change it 10% you haven't done anythign but fool yourself.

and my favorite....is always the one about "i am so small, or they won't come after me"...'they' do come after anyone (notice please i didn't say everyone)..big or small

i personally know people who have been sued for selling photo frames with disney characters (and all of the money generated from sales of said products was going to fund a very good cause..it doesnt matter)

i personally know more than one sign shop that is no longer in business because of their use of harley davidson graphics.

i personally know someone who has been ARRESTED not just sued for violating copyright law...it can be a criminal matter if certain conditions are met...

educate yourself, this is a part of how we make our living. we are supposed to be the professionals

 

[natedawg9640]

useful link... but how about being extra helpful and illustrating how you go about acquiring logo releases for things instead of shunning every customer looking for something not original.

and what about stuff like say... a font used in a logo. or somehting like the chevy bowtie in a design?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

My mom knew one person that used a photo of the tree that Peeble Beach Golf Courses uses as their logo for a design in a quilt and was sued for that.

It's all about damages, who the target audience is and is it to where people could actually mistake your logo for something that is easily identified especially if it's from a copyright logo whose target audience is your target audience. In the case above, I hate golf, yet I know that tree and I recongnized that tree from somewhere, couldn't place it til that hubbub came about though. That's what really gets you on the copyright issues. How much potential(doesn't have to be actual sales) did they lose to your use.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

how do you go about acquiring a copyright release? i have never had a problem. in all of the corporate work i have done i have asked for it and if the customer had permission to use copyrighted material it was painlessly presented.

the ONLY time i have had a problem obtaining a copyright release is when a customer did not have the rights. i've received media packets from harley davidson, porsche, cadillac, nordstrom, hershey, portland trailblazers...the list goes on and on.

like i said..personally i have never had a problem. in fact usually the art departments at almost all companies of that caliber have been extremely helpful, providing amazing art, fonts, etc..

 

[Marlene]

useful link... but how about being extra helpful and illustrating how you go about acquiring logo releases for things instead of shunning every customer looking for something not original.

and what about stuff like say... a font used in a logo. or somehting like the chevy bowtie in a design?

the only time you would use the chevy bowtie is if you are making a sign for chevy. at that point, you would have all the usage and how to use info. I have a multi paged instructions on how to use the new YMCA logo. it has everything from proportions, margins, colors and eveything I need to know to produce the logo to the standards set. there have been times when I have had to tell my customer that no, we can't make the logo this way as there has to be a margin of --- and we don't have that. I follow the instructions and only do what is allowed.

I get so sick of those who use the "shun the customer who wants something not original" excuse. if you don't have the right to use a logo, that's it plain and simple. if you want to whip up a Harley logo for a customer, go ahead and do it. there are shops that do this because they really don't know any better and this is what threads like this are for to help them.

 

[natedawg9640]

well that's what i mean, who at these massive companies are the ones that need to be contacted? and do they generally charge you for using the stuff?

 

[Techman]

I did some work for Radio sharks. They had a place to download their entire line of logo and signage products.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

well that's what i mean, who at these massive companies are the ones that need to be contacted? and do they generally charge you for using the stuff?

I can't speak for the others, but the logos I have used from small companies gave it to me for free with little restrictive instruction other then giving the original files away or putting it on items that weren't directly related to the cause in which I was using it for(local truck rally or Ag. event etc). The higher end, bigger corporations I wouldn't be surprised to be charged, but I would imagine it had to do with the cause in which you were doing the art for.

 

[Marlene]

well that's what i mean, who at these massive companies are the ones that need to be contacted? and do they generally charge you for using the stuff?

it all depends on the job. usually, there's a marketing person or an art director to be contacted who can provide you with everything you will need. as far as being charged, that too depends on who and what you are doing. if you want to make tee-shirts with a local college logo, there's a process to go thru and license fees. some times, you have to pay a yearly license fee to make signs with their logo on it. each company has it's own policies.

 

[natedawg9640]

are there any logos that are considered public domain? or is pretty much everyhting you see out there protected?

 

[threeputt]

We do some work for a Chevy/Cadillac dealer. Whenever they want a particular logo or font style to be used, they direct me to the corporate website for Chevy or Cadillac. It has everything you could ever want.

The catch is that it's password protected and you have to have them open it for you, or reveal the password. But you can then download all sorts of stuff. All in pristine condition, ready for print.

All free, never been charged.

 

[MikePro]

so i was correct in turning down an existing client who wanted some window graphics of Donald Driver and Clay Mathews in Packers uniforms?

Turns out another printer in the area did it for them anyways. Tempted to whistleblow, but the client is a really nice lady and I'd hate to cause her grief.

 

[Pat Whatley]

I'm gonna agree with Dan. The bigger the company the easier it usually is to get the perfect artwork, most of them now have it available online and just issue you a password and tell you to go get what you need.

The sad part of the copyright issue is that a majority of the people out there don't see anything wrong with it. It's just like downloading music or movies, they don't see it as stealing.

 

[natedawg9640]

can you pm me a link to the corporate website? all i can ever find is BUY THIS CAR NOW websites.

We do some work for a Chevy/Cadillac dealer. Whenever they want a particular logo or font style to be used, they direct me to the corporate website for Chevy or Cadillac. It has everything you could ever want.

The catch is that it's password protected and you have to have them open it for you, or reveal the password. But you can then download all sorts of stuff. All in pristine condition, ready for print.

All free, never been charged.

 

[Marlene]

are there any logos that are considered public domain? or is pretty much everyhting you see out there protected?

they are protected for a ton of reasons. sports logos, NASCAR or a logo like Harley are big money makers for the owners of those logos. some are protected because the owners want them used the way they want them used. the YMCA logo I mentioned in another post was set up to be used in a certain way. some of the "don'ts" are adding a design element to it, changing the color combinations, rotating it, adding words or putting it on a colored background. what thye want is it to be used as required, not as I please. as far as being public domain, I doubt if there are any. it really isn't an issue as when you make something with a logo, you are making it for a company that is the owner of it. the only time it would be an issue is if you are making Harley bumper stickers for your own profit and you weren't hired by Harley to make them.

 

[iSign]

can you pm me a link to the corporate website? all i can ever find is BUY THIS CAR NOW websites.

you are missing the point...

YOU don't have permission.. there is NO SITE for you to get the art...
IF you have a client that says they have permission.. they provide the art, or the site.. if they can't.. they are like you, and THEY don't have permission...

 

[bob]

...deletia...

The sad part of the copyright issue is that a majority of the people out there don't see anything wrong with it. It's just like downloading music or movies, they don't see it as stealing.

Sadly the whole body of law dealing with copyright and attendant issues is hopelessly chained to another era. An era when the means of reproduction were not virtually universal and laws, even then silly, could at least be enforced.

Time marches on and the entire concept of 'intellectual property', whatever that might be, has been, if not negated, at least re-defined, with the advent of universal reproduction capabilities. Nowadays enforcement of these antiquated notions more often than not results in parties to any action looking ridiculous.

If people don't see anything wrong with it perhaps in this day and age there isn't anything wrong with it. At least nothing which would warrant the draconian efforts usually seen when attempting to enforce whatever rules there be however outdated they might be.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

the problem with public domain is knowing if it in fact was put there by someone who had that right. you want express written permission from the creator.


in regards to a large company providing artowork i have never paid to use their artwork. this would obviously be different if you wanted a license to create and sell a product. but for the purpose of obtaining protected art/logos etc from a company like HD for a dealership, no i have never been charged any fee.

now if artists only read and understood the rights and restrictions of the various clipart collections purchased. i had a client with multiple locations that had an existing 'logo' that was simply a piece of clipart from a collection..they were very disappointed when they were educated on the restrictions the 'artist' should have been aware of...that mistake cost both the artist and the client unnecessary time and money.

a collection of clipart does not make you a 'graphic artist'..and if that is your the limit of your skillset (and there are many limited to this) educate yourself as to the limitations and restrictions and dont provide things you do not have the legal rights to provide.

 

[natedawg9640]

you are missing the point...

YOU don't have permission.. there is NO SITE for you to get the art...
IF you have a client that says they have permission.. they provide the art, or the site.. if they can't.. they are like you, and THEY don't have permission...

lol. I think you misundestood what i wanted. I'm looking for the corporate website that i can get the contact information from to request said permission.

 

[J Hill Designs]

look up chrysler corporate headquarters, ask for the marketing department

 

[natedawg9640]

oh i see what you're saying. here's my desire. I want to sell an item on the internet with a mopar logo on it. Now I am the one that needs the permission, but i don't have a direct contact. that's why i was asking where to look/